GOD=NATURE

i don’t see any atheists around…which means they are just attacking the fathergod…

turtle wrote:

So, turtle, in response to Ierrellus’ Are not wonder and awe at Nature some sort of answer? It just may not be answer enough.

You wrote:

So, not to assume, the point you’re trying to make is that you do experience awe and wonder - in other words, you do respond at your core. Is that true?

yes :slight_smile:

where are the atheists…bring it on

It just occurred to me and I may be wrong but maybe the sign of a real atheist would be one who doesn’t attack God. How can we attack what doesn’t exist for us? lol

They attack the idea of a God.

they attack the fathergod…

They attack ideas about a deity. As Arc noted, they cannot attack that in which they do not believe. Ideas, however, can be attacked.

lets bring one in here…I think they are attacking anyone who believes in a father god…they are making personal attacks mostly on fundies

This certainly seems true of Dawkins. In his tirades the beauty and glory of science are shrouded by attacks on fundies.

Turtle,

You call upon Atheists, but what’s there to be gained?

I don’t see a positive outcome from the endeavor.

Live and let live, friend.

Sorry for any insult - and the same to you Ierrellus, sorry.

No insult taken. I won’t judge atheists so long as they don’t judge me.

why arent the atheists talking here…some of my friends are atheists…

No, god is the exact opposite of nature.
Nature does not change.
Yet god can and does change everything.
God manipulates the universe, bending everything to his divine willpower.

it seems like nature is changing all the time…nature follows certain rules that seem to stay the same…
what I am saying is that nature is god…we don’t know for sure but in order to survive we better understand nature much better…

interterrestrial

Is global warming included in your concept of nature?
Even if you’re speaking of human nature, that too has changed.

What has god changed in your estimation?

For someone who would appear to be a self-determined personality, you see god as a despot? Me thinks you’re projecting a bit. :stuck_out_tongue:

Nature works fine without inserting God into the equation.

Nature = Nature

God = God

God

noun
1.
the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2.
the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute:
the God of Islam.
3.
(lowercase) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4.
(often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception:
the god of mercy.
5.
Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6.
(lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7.
(lowercase) any deified person or object.

(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

  1. God
    a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
    b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
  2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
  3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
  4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
  5. A very handsome man.
  6. A powerful ruler or despot.

==

You seem to be defining God against the norm there, friend.

Are you unsatisfied with the above definitions?

You’re speaking like a Pantheist.

Are you one?

As a determinist, I’ve been inclined towards it myself, but the terminology is misleading. So I don’t describe myself so.

But…

God is unchangeable and immutable. God changes nothing. If he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then he is not limited by wants need or desires, thus has no need to make any changes. If he were to change something, that would imply that he got it wrong in the first place.
So what you say is a complete contradiction.

Oh look - he looks exactly like god!

thank you ben and lev for being the atheists…
ben you make a good case with definitions
lev you are correct

and arc you are asking good questions which the theists tend to avoid…

Lev Muishkin

You can’t know this. If there IS a god, and we are in some strange way, made in this god’s image and likeness, though I doubt it, then god is changeable and not immutable…since we are. Anyway, we can have no idea of what is god’s nature - nature from the human standpoint.

Have you ever made a change from simple self-awareness, Lev - there being no urgency about it or need? You just decided to do things differently. We have the ability to do this but we can’t attribute that to a god?
HE? Always the HE - go fig

What that just might tell me is that you have the need to think of god as being set in stone. You and are a process, just as the Earth and the Universe are, but still, you disallow your god from also being a process? Does that make you insecure? lol
Isn’t there a passage in the bible - I am what I am …becoming…