Reforming Democracy

To start: I am sorry for the lengthy delay in response… School, both for my daughter and I restarted, it’s been taking up my time…

Ok, so if this is not passed as a law, that we simply get rid of the tax credits with for people with multiple children, then leave people along. I can live with this and I would see it as the free market, possibly, working to reduce the amount of children people have. If this is what you mean, I guess I’m on board.

If a law is passed, I’m against it…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7cry-4pyy8[/youtube]

The only real problem I’ve seen is that you have not really explained clearly what you mean… Bogging us down in attempting to understand what you mean…

Yes, and that is a lot of innuendo… What kind of parties do you go to?

Oh, yeah. That tendency is my primary criticism of the left- they lie like dogs and deny what they really want because they need popular approval and their agenda wouldn’t sell if it was straightforwardly presented.

Mostly kids parties, actually. The only sense I got “hosed” was getting sprayed by the sprinklers.

I think I might be willing to join The Kid Party… As long as their policies were along the Conservative lines. How does your Kid Party feel about the second amendment?

Well, they do like their water pistols.

Once influencers of that type enter the game of democracy, “democracy” becomes no more than a smoke screen or veil. Society becomes no more than a competition of influencers; hypnotists, advertisers, and evangelists, aka “serpents”.

Truth becomes irrelevant and undesirable from all sides because Truth bows to no one’s wishes. The freedom to fight for one’s cause is lost in the sight of Truth. Thus Truth is turned against by all parties yet the populous is kept under the illusion that the Truth is near and identifiable despite the clouds caused by “those bad guys”. The truth is that even the influencers couldn’t identify the truth even if it favored them. On rare occasion, one speaks the truth inadvertently but quickly recovers. The society is no more than a pit of snakes and sheep, cons and marks and cons who are themselves marks.

Through all of the confusions of deceit, even the influencers lose track of Truth without knowing it. They too become influenced by the cloud, remnants of their own doings. In effect, all people become blind yet unaware that they are, impassioned by the misguidance of believing that the Truth is reasonably clear to them, “just not to other people”. Such is the state called “Dark Era”.

So what does “democracy” really mean when those of influence love the darkness? And being of influence, they can easily ensure that everyone else loves the darkness such that it is sustained for many generations. For democracy to work, Truth must be reasonably clear to those doing the “voting” so they can truthfully choose which candidate actually favors their concerns. But in darkness, they know nether their true concerns, nor which candidate would help them more.

Socialist societies fear Truth and thus forbid democracy. There is actually no such thing as “Democratic Socialism” other than a socialist system pretending to be democratic while they each blind themselves and others as much as possible in their competition to coerce the future into their chosen image.

What laws do you imagine could be made to change all of that, especially when those of influence in making laws are enamored with their freedom to subtly deceive, often using laws to do it? It’s a bit hard to step down from being a “god”.

I couldn’t agree more, James. It’s our inner motives (often unconscious) which determine what we will accept as “truth” and what we won’t, and those motives, though sometimes to seek the truth for its own sake, are not always aimed at truth.

I had a thread a while back that touched on something similar to this: What I got out of Nietzsche.

How do we find uncontaminated information? That’s what we really need–a clear, reliable way for the people to get trustworthy information, and to have good solid reasons for knowing that the information can be trusted.

That is almost the entire point of philosophy. And my answer is through a broader yet more restricted form of Science, a more honest form, more reasoning and less ego. It is the ego issues that give rise to subtle deceptions, whether political, religious, or ideological. It hasn’t been because they were stupid, but rather because they have been clever.

When they tell you that a certain object is yellow, how do you know if they are right? You can see that the color is the color you call “yellow”, but perhaps they got it wrong long ago and “yellow” really refers to what you were taught is “blue”.

How do you know if they got the names right? With certainty, how do you know that you and they are not being fooled about such things?

Though I think you’re right, I’m going to be a bit more of a pragmatist: let’s take the study Eric linked to. Now, how will philosophy help us determine whether Scott Atlas is right or not?

(I still haven’t read through the whole thing; I think I will this weekend.)

Perhaps, but so long as we both mean the same thing now, it shouldn’t matter what the term came from.

Gib asked me to post up some personal stories of leftist bias in academia. These stories are all from my experiences with the Philosophy department.

1.) In my Environmental Ethics course, when we’d take a test there was always a question of the following sort: “Defend or criticize the practice of X using our course readings.” Where X would be something like factory farming, nuclear power, genetically modified food, or what have you. Sounds like an objective question- you can answer it either way you want. The problem, of course, is that you have to use the readings, and there were never any readings defending the practice in question. So if you wanted to defend nuclear power, say, you couldn’t complete the assignment.

2.) I have a friend that took the Marxism course. We were talking about it one day over lunch, and he was tell me about Chairman Mao and all the great ideas he had, and how the Little Red Book really opened his eyes to some stuff. I asked him about the Great Leap Forward, Thousand Flowers Campaign, stuff like that. My friend had no idea what I was talking about. Turns out, the Marxism course has a two-weeks section on Mao that doesn’t even mention what happened when he got into power.

3). I was in a Philosophy of Religion course. Really, we didn’t learn much philosophy of religion. We learned what a couple sociologists say about religion, and then the rest of it was a ‘ethics’ course- we’d read a paper against nuclear power, or against war, or in favor of racial reforms or whatever, but because the author was a nun or a minister or whatever, it qualified a Philosophy of Religion, I guess. The format of the class was, 3-4 people would assigned to lead the class presentation on the previous week’s reading, with the professor providing a few clarifying comments at the end. One week in particular, the subject was some guy criticizing Catholic just war theory. Catholic Just War theory has several criteria that must all be met for a war to be considered just, that involve the reasons it is fought, and how it is fought. The author went through the list and refuted each criteria by showing how a war could be clearly unjust despite meeting that criteria. What he failed to take into account is that all the criteria have to be present, so criticizing them individually in such a way is meaningless. He also criticized Just War theory on the grounds that it turns “Thou Shalt Not Kill” from absolute imperative into a matter of subjective interpretation. I pointed out in class that this can’t be a valid criticism because that commandment has been a matter of interpretation from the beginning- the very first thing Moses did after presenting the 10 commandments is have a bunch of people killed for worshipping the golden calf.
So anyway, I made these points in class, expecting that some more liberal classmates would disagree, because why not? That was just my take on the reading. But there wasn’t much commentary. At the end of the class, the professor stood up to make his comments as usual, but instead of commenting on the reading, he commented on me- spent those 10 minutes (felt like more) talking about how if people aren’t going to read attentively, they shouldn’t be commenting in class at all, and on and on and on. Now, the class discussion was light enough that it could only be me he was talking about. So, after being berated for 10 minutes for expressing an opinion he didn’t like, I didn’t participate in his class anymore. I showed up, but insstead of asking questions and giving opinions, I just had my nose stuck in my laptop through the lectures. This was a small class, a 101 class where most people were not interested. So without me, there basically was no class discussion. After two lectures of people awkwardly sitting around not commenting at all, theprofessor eventually recanted his early comments, declaring to ‘the class’ that he hadnt meant to stifle discussion altogether. After that, I resumed participating as normal.

4.) This same professor was a member of MPAC- Maine Peace Action Committe or some shit like that. Peace protest organizers. A friend of mine who was also a member at the time told me that during the above incident, the professor told MPAC all about me- what a barbarian I was, and how people like me had no business studying philosophy in the first place.

5.) This was also about the time I was told by a Political Science advisor that I didn’t have much of a chance as a philosophy professor, because I wasn’t a woman or a minority.

6.) I remember being told, by my ethics professor back in my freshman year that we were going to skip the chapter on gay rights and homosexuality, because the issue was settled and there was no longer any controversy to discuss. This was the same year that in Maine, the state in which she was teaching, a gay marriage bill was struck down by popular vote. So, she considered an issue non-controversial when, not only was it controversial, but her side of the issue was the minority.

7.) I had many courses on political philosophy- the philosophy department was based around political philosophy, that was sort of the focus of the longest-serving professors. Despite that focus, Edmund Burke was never mentioned, not even to be criticized. Not even in the vast, rambling sections on Rousseau. No conservative writer was ever mentioned in class. No MacIntyre, no Sowell, no Hayek, no Montesquieu. No Kirk, no Goldwater, no Chesterton. When I mentioned one of these people, none of my professors had ever read any of them, with the exception of MacIntyre.

8.) When I revealed, in my senior year, that I was considering working for a political thinktank instead of being a philosophy teacher, my advisor was upset. By this time, it was no secret that I was a conservative. He expressed concern that I wouldn’t really want ‘people with political motives’ to ‘exploit my intellect in that way’. He was saying this to me in his office, which was littered with flyers and other advertisments for the various leftist political organizations he was a supporter or member of. There was no illusion- if he knew I was going to be joining organizations he approved of, he never would have made a comment like that.

There’s lots of others. It was a purely leftist-democrat political advocacy environment. Anyone that wasn’t on board with that was made to feel an outsider, made to feel (if not outright told) that they had chosen the wrong major. The treatment I recieved there was a big part in ‘radicalizing’ me- I’m a much more outspoken opponent of leftist politics now than I ever was before college. Five years of seeing how they act when they have power, or when they think there’s not a conservative in the room to criticize, will do that.

Thanks for taking the time, Ucci.

Do you think the atmosphere is similar to this in other state in the US? Or do you think it differs from state to state?

Wow. I read those stories. I understand better some of your reactions to posts here by people who are or seem to be liberals. I do think academia tends to lean left or liberal at least, but the shit you experienced was mindblowingly idiotic. I attended one of the most radically left colleges in the US, but the profile could also be seen as libertarian so it attracted a significant conservative leaning group - though, yes, libertarian types, for the most part - also. It could be tough on them in classes, but from other students, not from the professors, at least to my knowledge. Tough in the sense that they would be fencing on all sides and minority viewpoint representatives, with all that entails. I think it was generally seen as an opportunity, however by the professors. A lot of people sitting around and nodding in a discussion group, which every class that was not a more practical type course was, is a boring and near useless discussion group. What poor educators. Of course, I am pretty misanthropic so it shouldn’t surprise me but I still get surprised when specific instances come up.

    Based on what I've studied, California at least is that way or worse. Other states, I cannot say- but I can say that the professors in my college showed no signs of understanding that what they were doing was in any way remarkable, and I don't think any of them were Maine natives.  
    I can say that people are[i] complaining[/i] about this sort of thing all over the country- it's not hard to find academic watchdog websites where people go to report similar incidents.
Statistically it does.  The ratio of liberal to conservative professors is something like 8 to 1, and that's counting majors where it doesn't matter, like geology and business. If you just look at majors in which political views are most likely to inform the teaching- poli-sci, anthropology, sociology, philosophy, you're looking at closer to 20 to 1.  I wrote my second capstone on that, after being exposed to all stories I told you.  I wrote a lot of things that were subtle and not-so-subtle "This is why I am done with academia as soon as I graduate" papers in those days. 

To be fair, I picked the most mind blowingly idiotic examples spread over 4.5 years. There’s lots and lots of littler ones I could mention. I remember one time the subject was euthanasia, and I suggested that people who want assisted suicide should be shot with a gun instead of a syringe. My point was that how you do it will affect how many people decide to go through with it- legalizing euthanasia doesn’t just provide mercy to X number of people who are seeking it when it is controversial, it creates it as a live option for some number of people X+Y. Anyway, the professor was incensed. She said something to the effect of, ‘What, you want some Billy-Bob guy all drunk missing and blowing half a patient’s face off?’ Salient point being that when I say ‘gun’, she immedately defaults to ‘rural white poor Southern alcoholic’. Bare in mind, this was my ethics professor. Also bare in mind that I’m rural, white, and poor myself. Other than that, it was basically the level of bias that I woudn’t even consider a serious problem- such as Rush Limbaugh or George Bush being the go-to example of a bad person every single time a hypothetical bad person needs to be referenced. That’s the kind of stuff you expect.

So that’s where I learned the leftist modus operandi: They talk about tolerance and diversity because it makes them feel beautiful to do so. In reality, though, if you wear the wrong clothes or vote the wrong way or pray the wrong way or listen to the wrong music or come from the wrong part of the country or have a certain accent, they wish you were dead and will do everything possible to write you out of history and write you out of their plans for the future as well. The degree to which they hide this is in proportion to whether or not they think there is a conservative in the room.

There was a lot of flak from the students too, but I don't see that as a problem. I suppose part of the reason I didn't see it as a problem is I went to college in my 30's, didn't see the other students as my peers and thus couldn't care less what they thought of me or my ideas. On the other hand, my age made what I experienced from the professors [i]even more[/i] infuriating- not because I felt like it was intimidating me, but because every time I had an experience like this, a part of me was thinking, "Imagine if this was happening to me when I was 18 and couldn't defend myself", and it filled me with rage.

So my question is: how did a state of affairs like this ever come about? I mean, if it were one or two universities in the US, even separated by half a continent, you could probably just chock it up to a local group with some clout in the local universities exercising their power therein, but if we are to conclude that this trend has spread all over the US like a cancer, one has to wonder how it was possible at all. There must be a hand coming down from on high, some power base whose reach spans almost every state.

College is one of the places where the results are not measured long term. What matters is the kids in the class, not what the kids might do after the kids are out of the class. It fits with the leftist ideology, which only focuses on temporary solutions. Keynesian economics is the same way.

There is also a level of teachers not knowing how to do anything except teach, the result is they praise teachers. I’ve been bombarded with pro-teacher ideology from a very young age, and I didn’t even grow up in a super liberal state. I’ve had the teacher/babysitter comparison explained to me by teachers, multiple times. That it happened (once) when I was in third grade is absurd. Teachers go to school to teach, many of which never do anything else, except maybe wait tables, they can only teach how to teach. Add in a layer of verbal people being drawn to the job, they only praise verbal people (because they are who they understand). Liberalism is a verbal thing. What is said is far more important than actions. Examples: Bill Clinton is a rapist, but because he says the “right” things on politics about women, the rapist part is over looked.

The Affordable Health Care bill, does not create affordable Health Care. It (at best) lowers insurance costs… And those are two different things. Conservatives are remarkably bad at this, though Republicans do this too… Because verbal people are drawn to politics (the same as teaching).

 Well, the only organizations that have that kind of access and control would be teacher's unions, but I haven't seen any actual evidence that they did such a thing.  But you can see how it works if you think about how a professor succeeds-  They need to get tenure, which means the approval of the existing faculty, and in order to have any kind of respect (perhaps including tenure) they need to get published- and they aren't getting published in Reader's Digest, they're getting published in an academic journal that will mostly only be read by other professors, and certainly the opinion of other professors is what will determine the accepted quality of the published work. 
 So they are a very insular group, professors.  Sure, millions of students go through their doors, but the students and their parents (who could be thought of as customers) have little to no impact on whether or not a professor is seen as successful.  So it's easy to see how a group like that would drift out of the mainstream.  You'd think that individual colleges would drift in all sorts of different directions, but publishing binds them together, and the fact that you almost never teach in the community in which you were taught binds them together- the State of Indiana has no opportunity to raise up professors that teach in the Indiana way, and go on to teach Indiana students; you get your PhD at the most prestigious school that will give you a good stipend, and you teach at the school that will  hire you for the most money.

I suppose, but is there any reason it should veer so far to the left? Does that just happen to be how it turned out? It could have turned out very far to the right if things were different?

I keep trying to reply to this thread, but every time I write something, I muck it up and lose it. Anyway. . .

I’ve come to an epiphany, of sorts, because of this thread. Thank you for that, gib.

The people of the US have lost the ability to speak as a democracy; our II Amendment rights have been abrogated by the corporate voice of the market; our voice has been lost in the cacophony created by the money counters. I think this is true of all ‘democratic’ forms of government in the world today. The people we elect to legislate no longer represent us; our capitalist economy dictates to us.

While I understand the situation, I wonder if it’s a problem that can be solved. On the other hand, I believe we all should work for the future. Right now, we’re products of our near history. Obviously, we can’t change that. But can we change future history? In other words, can we learn from our history and do what we can to get rid of ideas that no longer work as they once may have or as they were intended?

Farm subsidies are an example. Billions are spent every year in farm subsidies, yet this is a Depression Era program. Not only that, but farming has been taken over, in great part, by agricorps. Corporations get ‘corporate welfare’ in the form of actual local, state, and federal subsidies as well as tax breaks, which, I believe, also began in the 1930’s. Finance and defense are industries ‘too big to fail.’

People are afraid of change; it’s fear of the unknown. But there comes a time when chances have to be taken. I think we’re getting closer and closer to that time. We can’t go back.

Enjoy,

Liz :heart::heart::heart: