skakos:
Is the Sun at the center of the solar system?
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”? (especially when there are modern theories from modern cosmologists with Earth at the center of the universe solving many problems of modern cosmology, including the problem of dark matter - see George Ellis)
And no, it is not because the heliocentric system is more simple than the geocentric one. Actually the heliocentric system uses MORE epicycles than the geocentric! (the true breakthrough in that came with the elliptical orbits of Kepler, not with the transition to the heliocentric system)
The truth is that behind our belief that the Earth IS NOT at the center of ANYTHING, lies a deep dogmatism: We believe that we ARE NOT unique. So deep is that dogmatism rooted into our thought, that we have formulated a respective astronomy PRINCIPLE (aka “axiom”, i.e. something NOT PROVEN) called “the Copernican Principle”.
Based on that principle, Hubble himself postulated that Earth is NOT at the center of the UNIVERSE EVEN THOUGH HIS DATA PROVED OTHERWISE!http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/earth-at-the-center-of-the-universe-2jszrulazj6wq-39/ for a brief analysis of arguments concerning the subject, including an analysis of the paper issued by Hubble and how he changed his initial finding based on his dogmatic beliefs.
Thoughts?
The Universe is ever expanding from all points simultaneously. In this way, all points in the Universe are at the centre.
Perhaps you are confusing this thought with the out-of-date hello/geo-centric argument which is long solved?
skakos
May 26, 2014, 2:35pm
21
The orbit of Venus and the Sun around Earth…
fuse
May 28, 2014, 5:04pm
22
The orbit of planets around egg yolk…
skakos
June 17, 2014, 4:28pm
23
If you wish, you can see anything.
Wil777
August 26, 2014, 1:07pm
24
It has been proved that heliocentric system of world is not effective, but some scientists still try prove that it is. Could you please explain why this happens?
fuse
August 27, 2014, 2:13am
25
Wil777,
Where has the solar system model been proven ineffective? Sources?
skakos:
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”?
We insist that the Sun is the center of the system because we are not only concerned about relative movement but about underlying forces. The theory of gravity is not coherent with a model of planetary systems where the sun orbits a planet.
skakos
August 30, 2014, 3:49pm
26
fuse:
Wil777,
Where has the solar system model been proven ineffective? Sources?
skakos:
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”?
We insist that the Sun is the center of the system because we are not only concerned about relative movement but about underlying forces. The theory of gravity is not coherent with a model of planetary systems where the sun orbits a planet.
For starters, it is ineffective to measure motion NOT from the point you stand…
fuse
August 30, 2014, 8:47pm
27
In this case, the view from where one stands does not tell a full enough story…
skakos:
Is the Sun at the center of the solar system?
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”? (especially when there are modern theories from modern cosmologists with Earth at the center of the universe solving many problems of modern cosmology, including the problem of dark matter - see George Ellis)
And no, it is not because the heliocentric system is more simple than the geocentric one. Actually the heliocentric system uses MORE epicycles than the geocentric! (the true breakthrough in that came with the elliptical orbits of Kepler, not with the transition to the heliocentric system)
The truth is that behind our belief that the Earth IS NOT at the center of ANYTHING, lies a deep dogmatism: We believe that we ARE NOT unique. So deep is that dogmatism rooted into our thought, that we have formulated a respective astronomy PRINCIPLE (aka “axiom”, i.e. something NOT PROVEN) called “the Copernican Principle”.
Based on that principle, Hubble himself postulated that Earth is NOT at the center of the UNIVERSE EVEN THOUGH HIS DATA PROVED OTHERWISE!http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/earth-at-the-center-of-the-universe-2jszrulazj6wq-39/ for a brief analysis of arguments concerning the subject, including an analysis of the paper issued by Hubble and how he changed his initial finding based on his dogmatic beliefs.
Thoughts?
First thought is that, as the universe is uniformly expanding from a BB, it means that every single point in the universe is simultaneously at the centre of the BB.
The reason that we do not consider the earth as motionless with the sun going round it is that objects in the UNiverse would have to transgress the speed limit (speed of light) for it to be true.
skakos
October 11, 2014, 5:26pm
29
Because?
Do you know what the “full” story is? How?
skakos
October 11, 2014, 6:06pm
30
skakos:
Is the Sun at the center of the solar system?
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”? (especially when there are modern theories from modern cosmologists with Earth at the center of the universe solving many problems of modern cosmology, including the problem of dark matter - see George Ellis)
And no, it is not because the heliocentric system is more simple than the geocentric one. Actually the heliocentric system uses MORE epicycles than the geocentric! (the true breakthrough in that came with the elliptical orbits of Kepler, not with the transition to the heliocentric system)
The truth is that behind our belief that the Earth IS NOT at the center of ANYTHING, lies a deep dogmatism: We believe that we ARE NOT unique. So deep is that dogmatism rooted into our thought, that we have formulated a respective astronomy PRINCIPLE (aka “axiom”, i.e. something NOT PROVEN) called “the Copernican Principle”.
Based on that principle, Hubble himself postulated that Earth is NOT at the center of the UNIVERSE EVEN THOUGH HIS DATA PROVED OTHERWISE!http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/earth-at-the-center-of-the-universe-2jszrulazj6wq-39/ for a brief analysis of arguments concerning the subject, including an analysis of the paper issued by Hubble and how he changed his initial finding based on his dogmatic beliefs.
Thoughts?
First thought is that, as the universe is uniformly expanding from a BB, it means that every single point in the universe is simultaneously at the centre of the BB.
The reason that we do not consider the earth as motionless with the sun going round it is that objects in the UNiverse would have to transgress the speed limit (speed of light) for it to be true.
Many galaxies speed away from us is speeds greater than that of light. But anyway, NO. Changing reference point does not call for a change in the laws of physics. If something moves in speed X around an object, it does not matter which object you call “center”…
fuse
October 11, 2014, 6:14pm
31
skakos:
Because?
Because “things” like gravity and electromagnetism cannot be seen directly - but are inferred from a large amount of evidence and many many observations. If the planets and the Sun revolve around Earth, most of what we know about space and astrophysics is wrong. Did we land on the moon by an incredible, fortunate accident or is there something that works really well about our current physics models?
No.
It is an ontological choice, not a reality one way or the other.
Arminius
October 12, 2014, 3:08pm
33
To a peasant urban not at the center of the universe.
You might have a good point there. One in need of a centering inspiration. The other in need of escape from the noise.
skakos:
Is the Sun at the center of the solar system?
But as Einstein said, “The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS [Coordinate System] could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, ‘the sun is at rest and the earth moves’ or ‘the sun moves and the earth is at rest,’would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS”.
Why then do we still insist that “The Sun is at the center of the solar system”? (especially when there are modern theories from modern cosmologists with Earth at the center of the universe solving many problems of modern cosmology, including the problem of dark matter - see George Ellis)
And no, it is not because the heliocentric system is more simple than the geocentric one. Actually the heliocentric system uses MORE epicycles than the geocentric! (the true breakthrough in that came with the elliptical orbits of Kepler, not with the transition to the heliocentric system)
The truth is that behind our belief that the Earth IS NOT at the center of ANYTHING, lies a deep dogmatism: We believe that we ARE NOT unique. So deep is that dogmatism rooted into our thought, that we have formulated a respective astronomy PRINCIPLE (aka “axiom”, i.e. something NOT PROVEN) called “the Copernican Principle”.
Based on that principle, Hubble himself postulated that Earth is NOT at the center of the UNIVERSE EVEN THOUGH HIS DATA PROVED OTHERWISE!http://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/earth-at-the-center-of-the-universe-2jszrulazj6wq-39/ for a brief analysis of arguments concerning the subject, including an analysis of the paper issued by Hubble and how he changed his initial finding based on his dogmatic beliefs.
Thoughts?
There is a painfully simple reason why the earth is not the centre of the universe IN ANY WAY, as that would mean that the observed movement of the stars would put their velocity well beyond any reasonable expectation of the speed of light.
skakos
December 14, 2015, 12:41pm
36
fuse:
skakos:
Because?
Because “things” like gravity and electromagnetism cannot be seen directly - but are inferred from a large amount of evidence and many many observations. If the planets and the Sun revolve around Earth, most of what we know about space and astrophysics is wrong. Did we land on the moon by an incredible, fortunate accident or is there something that works really well about our current physics models?
No.
Science just describes the “how”. And this description is not affected by the center SELECTED. Choose any center you like, transform your equations and you will have exactly the same “physics”.
Not really.
CelineK
December 15, 2015, 11:46pm
38
Everything can be considered being at the center of the Universe,would it be earth, any solar system or even a mere subatomic particle. Everything is a fractal of the whole, and thus possesses an element of the whole within. As above, so below.
skakos
December 16, 2015, 12:24pm
39
Not really.
In the same way that would be a problem for the Sun, wouldn’t it?
However the speed you refer to is not violating anything. Relativity refers to local speed in a system, not speed related to anything in the cosmos.
