Why NATO? Economically the US and the EU are deadly enemies!

K: a bit sensitive are we?

The US and the EU are not deadly enemies. the means of economics is trading and
the US and the EU are trading partners, which means they make money off each other.
Sure they hit their rough patches but overall they need each other economically and
that will keep Nato in business long after its needed. And as for putin, as long as
Russia has delusions of grander, Nato will be needed. The EU by itself cannot hold off
any type of Russian attack. Militarily, the EU needs the US. The fear of Russia will
keep Nato in business.

Kropotkin

On top of that, prior to the meltdown of relations between Nato members and Russia, Russia was a NATO conference ‘observer’, with even talk of having her become a permanent member. there were discussions going on in Brussels, over the relevance of NATO, when there are no reasons for it to continue, since the demise of Communism. However, NATO could still have retained symbolic significance , of usefullness, by retaining it’s function as a sort of world police force. Here again the dual aspect of symbol and signification props up in context.

You are sensitive? Okay, then I give you a cuter example:

A: „How old are you, K.?“
K: „The question also misses the place where I was born.“
A: „The question misses nothing.“

Headshrinker: „K, would you please tell A how old you are?“

The EU has no fear of Russia, because Russia isn’t militarily strong - apart from its nuclear weapons. And besides that: The EU could also arm itself. Why not?

The NATO was once founded as an alliance of defence, at least it was said so (and as usual a lie), but more and more it became obvious that it was an alliance of attack and even the most aggressive attack alliance of all times. We have been becoming aware of it at least since the Attack on Vietnam.

Okay, if the existence of the NATO has not to be terminated, then it has to be reformed - as well as the EU.

Otherwise:

… and so on.

The NATO should be an alliance of defence - and nothing more than an alliance of defence!

Please make suggestions how the NATO can be reformed that it can become an alliance of defence - and nothing more than an alliance of defence!

The EU has to be reformed too. Please make also suggestions for the EU reform!

K: gladly, I am 55. I am old enough to remember having drills in class, where we practice hiding
under the desk in case of a nukes from the mean old soviet union. Yep, our desk would save us from
a nuclear holocaust.

Kropotkin

Maybe not, but a military 'enemy' is not the same thing as an economic 'enemy', and to call two groups 'deadly enemies' is hyperbolic when talking about the latter sense.  
 In the sense in which NATO matters, the US and EU aren't enemies.  In the sense in which they are economic 'enemies', there's nothing 'deadly' about it to provoke the comparison.

It would be like asking if New York or Massachusetts should seceed from the union because the Yankees and the Red Sox are 'deadly enemies'.

No, that’s wrong, and you know that it is wrong!

B.t.w.: What would you think, if your “friend” is vitsiting and at the same time robbing you?

Arminius, before there was trade between adjacent villages, there were only skirmishes over differences of unfairness. now the village has gone global, and the most that such unfairness can garner, is some protectionist tax. Before international trade agreements, countries would go to war with each other. Some examples are the Opium Wars of the British Empire with China, the rubner wars of the USA and Vietnam, the oil wars with the Middle East, and the list goes on. NATO is important, even if there is in some persons opinion, no relationship between economics and international security. however, what makes anyone think, that if trade agreements are broken, economic pressures do not force governments to engage in saber rattling rhetoric or action? now, more then ever, with the attempted equalization of the global economy, the world needs teeth to sink into the petty thefts of countries accused of misappropriation, especially theft of foreign aid, consumer product espionage, of illicit printing of forged currency, not to speak of international narcotic trade, human investiture and trafficking of young girls , pirating on the high seas? downing of airlines to serve political ends, and the button still on the nuclear option,as a way of swinging big time threats to unbelievers? is not Nato if nothing else, a big stick of which Theodore Roosevelt spoke as a requirement for governance of imperium? And the US is an imperium, needing allies to control the world , absent of which, the vacum it would leave behind, would for sure ascertain a real catastrophe of no presdedent? There is, clearly, more to the idea, that whereas they are different, economics and defense are primordially related.

Maybe I don’t have all the facts- if you think the relationship between the US and the EU is comparable to robbery, tell me how.

[size=150]Yes, you don’t have all the facts. After bombing Europe (especially Germany and robbing it, cp. the robbed millions of patents, masterpieces, knowledge, scientists and technicians [by blackmailing them], and - amongst much others - territories [cp. the forced displacement of about 20,000,000 Germans] and the whole gold of the German Reich) you have been bombing it with immigrants because (you know) that it will weaken it sooner or later. Why should we again defence the USA by sacrificing all European people?[/size]

[size=150]The reasons why there is still no peace treaty to end the Second World War have also to do with those historical facts I described above. And why and for whom is it advantageous (cui bono?) that enemies of the Second World War which has not ended (because there is no peace treaty) became suddenly and remain partners, although one of this partners (Germany) always has to pay reparations, redemptions, reinstatement etc.? And since about thh 1960’s this partner has been sacrificing its people again, this time by abortion and enslaving to make a way for immigrants from countries which are bombed by the USA and Israel.

I like the US people of all time - but not the US politics since 1913![/size]

The European Union and central bank is the United States bitch.

NATO is the United States lapdog.

This reminds me of a term of the German investigative journalist Peter Scholl-Latour (1924-2014) :

“Tony Blair als »Pudel Amerikas«” - Peter Scholl-Latour, “Deutschland muß atomar aufrüsten!”, in: Cicero, 2007.
Translation:
“Tony Blair as »America’s poodle«” - Peter Scholl-Latour, “Germany must arm atomically!”, in: Cicero, 2007.

Furthermore there is a Trojan horse (Turkey) in the NATO, and 2004 the EU got a [i]Trojan donkey /i of the USA.


#=>|

So, you agree then Arminius with my statement?

Approximately, Laughing Man.

You said that the “European Union and central bank is the United States bitch”, and Nietzsche said that the state is the coldest of all cold monsters. (“Staat heisst das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer.” - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, “Also sprach Zarathustra”, 1883, S. 57). Can monsters have bitches?

The Fed is even one of the main monsters, a private one and very schizophrenic. :wink:

You said that the “NATO is the United States lapdog” and I add: this lapdog is a very aggressive one and very schizophrenic. :wink:

After World War II they were already talking about devising the European Union in 1949.

As usual most people ignore or are too ignorant of the real players in control of things.

The European central bank just like the Japanese one takes its orders from the United States Federal Reserve.

This makes sense Arminius, so do You not see , eventually, post Angela Merkel, an opportunist will see a hole here, and once the EU is in the position to help Germany’s rearmament, to strike out a political stance entirely dialectically opposite from the previous econo-political co operation. But instead of getting rid of NATO at that point, a ce session from NATO a would be more likely,mal though there may occur between then and now a breakdown in relationships with allies of Germany, leading to a planned breakdown do to a miscalculation of sorts.
England too, may break off after rethinking it’s schizophrenic position between the EUROPEAN and the US. I am not saying this will happen, only that it might. But then EU has to increase it’s military budget to the extent that it can finance a major war with Tussia who just may get ideas of reasserting it’s power over the Baltics and other assets in Europe. This is why,mperhapsmtook up the reins of leadership, like a smart ex KGB guy, and I think You and Laughing Man are on to something,nor which everyone is holding their breaths. How a desperate US may react if such a scenario would play out, is another question mark, it may just receede to a Wilsonian type of neutrality, and adopt a do it yourself attitude. This Is where the antichrist will show it’s face, and let it all hang out. However the likelihood of all this going down in this particular way is not overly convincing. I don’t know.

If Germany leaves the European Union the Euro is toast.

There are rumors that Germany might pivot east with a Russian German alliance of some sort.

Russian natural gas and oil meets German industrialism or manufacturing capabilities.

If the European Union broke a part I’m sure Russia would be a key player involved in that.