Universe and Time

More pointless speculation is a definite possibility. :evilfun:

In my animations the bodies are also curving (circling) due to a center, but - geometrically said - curving (circling) is merely two-dimensional, whereas spiraling is curving (circling) three-dimensionally.

At the same time when our Earth orbits our Sun, our Sun orbits the center of our galaxy. According to this facts the movement of the Earth can only be three-dimensional, thus spiral.

One can nevertheless call it “circling in a three-dimensional way”, because it means “spiraling”.

I am talking about a geometrical difference - not about spiraling inward or outward (that would be another issue).

The helical model (part 1):

The helical model (part 2):

In the video is said that our solar system would be a vortex. I do not think so. But: The most basic notion that the planets trace helical paths through space is perfectly correct. If you were not aware that the Sun orbits the center of the galaxy — which, since the planets orbit it, necessitates that they trace out helical paths — then the education system has seriously failed.

Emmm…
He seems to be presuming some things. He speaks of an “interstellar wind” presumably due to the Solar System traveling. And although it is impossible to have absolutely zero wind, what makes it reasonable to think that the ambient space (“wind”) isn’t moving along with the Solar System?

As I said: I do not agree with everything he is saying. My intention was to show the spiral/helical model, because I think that he did a good job with his video/animation. But his text is not always agreeable.

I agree that he did a great job with the video. And it points out an often overlooked necessary fact - the helical motion of the planets as the Sun travels.

He also assumes a helical travel pattern for the Sun, which I see no reason to buy into. Why would the Sun be orbiting anything other than the galactic center?

The Sun is only orbiting the galactic center. Did he say something different?

He shows the Sun traveling in a spiraling helix. A helix travel requires a center line/curve to be traveling around. The Sun is shown orbiting that center line (in the same way as the planets are orbiting the Sun) as it travels around the galactic center. What is causing the Sun to orbit like that while also orbiting the galactic center?

Only the galactic center is causing the orbit of the Sun. The spiraling helix he shows is the orbit of the Earth. The Sun is causing the Earth to orbit the Sun, while the galactic center is causing the Sun (and thus also the Earth) to orbit the galactic center. What he shows is that the Earth (but not the Sun) has two orbits: (1) an orbit caused by the Sun, (2) an orbit caused by the galactic center. The spiraling helix he shows is the visual (optical) result of that two orbits of the Earth (and not of the Sun). He does not show another orbit of the Sun.

Watch the path of the Sun in this one:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws[/youtube]

What do you think is causing the Sun to spiral and bob up and down while making its way around the galaxy center?

Ah, now I know what you mean. I think that he made a mistake there. And by the way: That second animation is not as good as the first one.

I could imagine that he tried to show how the Sun spirals beacuse of the fact that the galactic center also moves, but then he made a mistake by showing odd movements. And it is also not clear why he mentioned the stellar wind in that animation (compare: 1:54-1:58).

Do you think that our galaxy is a “vortex”?

I use the word “vortex” a little differently than that. Technically the galaxies are vortices, but when I say “vortex”, I always mean a spiral that is elongated along a center line in the third dimension:

If the galaxy center is traveling faster than and orthogonal to its plane of rotation, then it would be a vortex. I don’t know that the center is traveling any faster or slower than the rest of the galaxy. And if it isn’t, I would refer to it only as a “spiral”.

Yes. I really can totally agree with that.

What do you think about that?

I suspect that it is almost entirely prejudice speculation for sake of public promotion of space travel. What I read of the theory and methods concerning it gave me the impression that someone was merely fantasizing. But the fantasy gets promoted as long as it fits the agenda.

Yes. That is right. Unfortunately.

TO ALL.

The physicist Harald Lesch said: “Unser Universum ist kein buddhistisches Universum, sondern ein protestantisches” (translation: “Our universe is no Buddhistic universe but a Protestant”).

What do you think about that statement?