We all have labels that fit us best. In my case, Gnostic Christian, as I understand the term, is my best label. I do add esoteric ecumenist and naturalist to it which says that I can study atheism and secular humanism as just two other human divisions and ideologies.
At least, when I criticize the immoral mainstream religions, they see that it is another religionist doing it and not a true non-believer even though they call us heretics.
I hope that my label carries more weight than if a non-believer is doing the criticizing.
I was waxing poetic. I don’t actually think of the stars, planets, oceans, et cetera as gods like the ancients did.
I may stand in awe of them at times and worship them but not literally as gods.
The so-called kingdom to me is everywhere and everything which my mind/heart/spirit interfaces with and which causes me to be moved.
How could anyone take that as an insult? Whether or not you actually meant it to be true, I find that I am often mentally rich as you say. There is still an opposite side to that coin which I am. I can also at times be mentally poor. lol But I do seem to have wonderful brain chemistry - most of the time. Who knows, maybe it’s also because of my Irish/Italian genes. lol and my life’s journey.
The odd person does see it as an insult when anything spiritual od religious is attributed to them.
I am pleased you are not.
True that we should not see the physical world around us as a god in the usual definition of god as sentient.
I take it as god’s kingdom and do see nature as a great teacher, — without the sentience. I see nature as perfect in it’s own right without having to swallow Intelligent Design.
Oh, there are some out there who might consider me to be odd or strange. Really. I sometimes intuit that within myself. I find nothing wrong with it…being odd, that is. “Odd” is just another’s perspective and sometimes a biased one at that.
Aside from that, I can’t quite grasp your meaning above. You are pleased I am not WHAT? The “odd” person? But I am.
Is it possible that some people are not capable of remaining “humble” when they’re told that they are spiritual or religious? It makes them uncomfortable. Perhaps to them it feels as though they’re being controlled in some way and have to go on to prove how spiritual and religious they are. Then there are those who thrive on their spirituality though in actuality there’s really not much there at all.
Humans are sentient. Can we use that human term to define god?
Nature is indeed a great teach if we listen and observe her. I’ve learned much at her feet.
Define “perfect”.
That’s a tricky one for me. I am not reconciled to a God’s Intelligent Design but I do still see and intuit the intelligence, structured organization, timely patterns (for lack of a better phrase) breathtaking awesomeness, et cetera. I can intuit that there has to be lol something but i couldn’t call it god and certainly not a personal god but that’s just me.
I don’t think we’ll ever get to this mystery unless it’s revealed and I don’t really see that happening. Whatever we intuit and think we know just comes from our brain chemistry. I’m more or less a pagan. lol
More and more atheist churches and mystery scools are popping up all over the place.
Some preachers in some Christian churches are also telling more of the truth of the bible being un-inspired by god and preaching that it is all allegory and metaphor. Even Jesus.
In using odd above, I was using it to mean odd number of people. Not odd person as in strange.
As to defining perfect as in the perfection of nature.
I see nature as always creating for the best possible end, given all the conditions and environment where life starts. Any life.
There is indeed what we would call intelligent structure to natural systems. If there was none, the structure would have likely gone extinct. I think there has to be if as we can see, natures creates for the best possible end.
I think that it’s the other way around - we’ve been since forever inventing God or gods…and this will continue on til death do us part from this mad Earth.
So what would that be ~~ the perfection of nature?
Can nature be seen, in actuality, as being perfect?
It is perfect by my perception most of the time but can one call nature “perfect”? Nature is natural, it abides by natural law, though not always, I don’t believe ~~but perfect?
Are hurricanes, tsunamis, tornadoes perfect? They are beautiful to behold but are things which are capable of causing great chaos and destruction perfect?
What is perfect?
So what you’re saying here is that nature is sentient and ethical; that it ALSO has its own purpose in mind?
But is that [really] so? Give me an example of this?
It works both ways.
The totality of all natural conditions spawns humans over millennia of evolutionary processes. Humans, then, being created, create gods.
Something is perfect when it is exactly as it ought to be. If you say that everything in nature happens as it ought, then nature is perfect. Others will disagree if they have different ideas on how things ought to be.
Matter and energy are partners in a dance in which they change places and identities. Who here can say who or what causes this dance to be as it is? God is as good an answer as any other. After all what’s in a name? Natural forces will act as they will regardless of what they are called. The problem seems to be our propensity to not see God as anything but human. Thus we color evolution with notions of teleology and anthropomorphism. There are social and political reasons for this way of seeing, reasons that have to do with control of some persons by others. In short, is God an Is or a Should Be?" Is the dance rigged? By us? By whom or what?
The dance is not rigged, it is but a misunderstood process of the energy of transformation, the realization of the relationship between the Ying and the Yang.
It is but a necessary but very rare form of a hidden anachronism, hiding the nemesis of each other, within their own fold.
It works both ways.
The totality of all natural conditions spawns humans over millennia of evolutionary processes. Humans, then, being created, create gods.
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Indeed. As it should be.