It is a common mistake to presume that others are equally as dumb as oneself. But the Dalai Lama is not an idiot and probably had more education from experts by the age of 15 than most ever obtain throughout their entire lives.
I am aware of the very extensive knowledge that the Dalai Lama has. I have more than 10 books written by the Dalai Lama and have read many articles on him and his knowledge.
However from what the Dalai Lama has expressed of ‘Muslim Terrorist’ I believe he is ignorant of a very thorough knowledge of ‘what is Islam’.
If you think otherwise show me proofs the Dalai Lama has read and researched deeply into the religion of Islam like what he had done for Tibetan Buddhism and Scientific knowledge.
How do you define ‘who is a Muslim.’
Note my definition of who is a Muslim in here;
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=191346
I have always agree the majority of Muslims are peaceful and good people. So there is no issue on this point. But majority do not imply truths or that Islam is fully peaceful. Therefore it is possible for the minority to be true Muslim and this warrant an in-depth research into this subject which I had done.
The basic point is where there are evil and violence in the world, as concerned citizen of humanity we must give attention and contribute in whatever ways to resolve the problem.
In resolving the problem we must break up and identify specific parts of the problem for resolution.
One part of the major problem of evil I think I am competent to discuss is related to Islam.
I have traced the root causes of this problem to;
- SOME Muslims who are evil prone
- Evil elements within the Quran and other Islamic texts.
In a way, I am hoping someone will give evidence to prove I am wrong which I meant I will gain new knowledge. It is a lose-win situation.
To topic, if you think I am wrong, prove to me there are no evil prone Muslims and there are no evil elements in the Quran and other Islamic texts, thus no Muslim terrorists.
So far you have not given any proofs to counter my points as above.
All you have done is merely complaining on a general basis.
I believe my theory, ‘Islam-in-part is inherently evil’ is true based on the proofs and arguments I have proposed [until proven otherwise]. Now if you simply brushed off such a theory without proofs then you are indirectly complicit to the future evil and violence committed by evil prone Muslims on humanity.
All religions are in part inherently evil. Some are more than others. And it depends upon what a person thinks is evil.
The Muslims/Islamics that are evil will commit evil and expose themselves quite blatantly in this case. They are quite proud and are not exactly hiding. They openly recruit the disgruntled humans from all cultures. Thoroughly knowing their beliefs is not necessary. Knowing they are a group that claims a title to the majority is not necessary. The way to change their desire to kill others is through infiltration and make killing nonprofitable .
Has it even occurred to you that world agencies want these groups alive ? It has to me. The world governments can easily go and remove these cells. They know where they are, who they are, how many there are. Governments have access to tech toys that are amazing. In one day all terrorists could be wiped out along with potential ones. Yet this does not occur. This is not conspiracy theory , it is reality. Money, power and control are the whys. Eventually they will have to eliminate the terrorists to prevent the inevitable rebellion. They are right now (quite likely) preparing another situation to make people dependent upon them.
Yes in one sense. However to be more efficient we need to dig deeper into the root causes. This is why I analyze the evils from ALL religions into;
- Religion associated evils
- Religion Inspired evils.
Without a detailed analysis one will be on a wild goose chase or fighting fires all the time instead of extinguishing the source of the fire.
Religion associated evils [1] are those evil acts committed by believers on their own compulsions and has nothing to do with the tenets and doctrine of the specific religion. Example evil acts by SOME Buddhists in Myanmar has nothing to do with any verses from the main Sutras of Buddhism.
Religion Inspired evils [2] are are those evil acts committed by believers when influenced and inspired directly by the tenets and doctrine of the specific religion. Example, the majority of evil acts committed by SOME evil prone Muslims at present and in the past were directly traceable to the verses in the Quran as a direct or indirect command from Allah to kill or commit evil onto non-Muslims and even other Muslims.
Evil is a very loose term. However we can easily arrive at a consensus on ‘what is evil’ and the acts that are termed evil. For example, it is obvious genocide, mass rapes, deliberate murders, and many others common acts of evils can be agreed by all normal human beings are morally evil. I have done sufficient research to establish what is generally termed evil within a range from low to high degree of evil.
Your thinking here is not sufficient nor efficient to the point.
Muslims as human being do commit evils that are not linked to the Quran, e.g. a crime of passion, petty thefts, etc. thus has nothing to do with Islam. This is not the point here.
The point here is the Muslims who are evil prone will commit evil when influenced by the evil elements in the Quran [& other Islamic] texts. The blame here is thus primarily on Islam [partly] itself. I would not focus the blame on the evil prone Muslims who were unfortunately born with an active evil propensity, tendency and proclivity.
Your focus on terrorism is too narrow. Evil prone Muslims where influenced and inspired by evil elements in the Quran [Islam] commit a full range of evils beside the more notable terrorist and political related evils. Evil prone Muslims as influenced by Islam [in part] commit evils relating to sphere of social, cultural, economics, legal, arts, etc. besides the political.
I understand many political authorities [including Islamic ones] exploited Muslims for their political interest for example FBI and the Talibans and even at the present. But the root problem is because such a potential for exploitation exists in the Quran. So the ultimate source of the problem is in the Quran [& other texts] thus Islam itself.
My main point is regardless of the varieties of evil from all aspects but has any relation with Islam and Muslim, the ultimate root cause is Islam itself because Allah [rather some human{s}] incorporated evil elements in the Quran while it was compiled during the 7th century.
Your dogmatic insistence to fight fires rather than the source of the fire is a weakness itself and indirectly complicit to the terrible evils that will continue to be committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who are influenced by the evil elements in the Quran [& other texts] and Islam.
Therefore we should focus on Islam [partly] as the source of all Islamic-Inspired evils and violence and not running about fighting fires instead of the source of the fire.
A tool that inspired people to kill is held to be evil or just a tool misused by an evil person?
A gun can be used to save lives from evil or be used to commit evil. A knife, an axe, etc.
The Quran is a tool. It is up to the person that holds it wether to use it for good or evil. The tool is not the problem. The problem is within the minds of those that use it. The leaders of this group are adept at conning the disgruntled recruits. How?
Also , the leaders are not out there with bombs are they? They are safe and sound enjoying life.
You and the governments are either blindly or deliberately missing that crucial piece. You are picking at a tool that is not the problem. The young recruits are missing the very simple fact that their leaders never put their lives on the line for the supposed reward of the afterlife.
Why do the governments not address this as a tool for ending or at least hindering recruitment? The text can be used to stop this. The proper group working together can use words to bring peace just as words are being used to create war. It is not the text, it is the manipulation of the text.
Thing is, a gun doesn’t have a sticker on it saying “Murder people with this”. It often comes with a booklet saying “Do not murder people with this”. Quran is the exact opposite,it tells you to murder people.
It is not a manipulation of text. It blatantly tells you to murder people in the Quran. In fact the only manipulation of text is to argue that the Quran does not tell you to murder people.
You say that it is a tool, but tools are meant for building and repairing things.
The Quran is pretty much the exact opposite of a tool, since it un-builds, it is against Muslismism to build arts music and many other things.
What you have missed is the Quran is a tool for human[s] who are like a person who is drowning in the middle of a deep sea and driven by instincts to grab at any thing to save his life.
The Quran and Islam is a tool presented to human[s] like a double-edge blade. The Quran was not authored by a God but by human[s] and likely by humans who are inclined to evils and violence and that is why they included evil elements in the Quran.
My point is you have failed to understand human nature and psychology, that desperate humans when their life is hanging by the skin of their teeth or a drowning man, will do whatever it takes to save their life in priority over any thing else including killing others and committing other evils.
Now the Quran promised human[s] they will be saved from eternal death if they submit to Allah and accept the terms and conditions in the Quran.
The terms and conditions in the Quran that will save Muslims from eternal death [the most fearful thing] unfortunately included loads of evil elements that included killing non-Muslims under very vague “IF” conditions.
The Quran also promised Muslims who die as martyrs [killing non-Muslims] will be rewarded with an expeditious path to Paradise surrounded by the grandest sensual delights that include eternal virgins.
Based on my understanding of human nature, I understand appx 80% of Muslims are born with good tendencies and thus will not be influenced nor are desperate to that extend to take Allah’s offer of being martyrs and killing infidels [deemed as a thread to Islam].
However there are a natural existence of appx. 20% of Muslims [as with ALL humans] who will be blinded and influenced by the evil elements and offer to do “evil”* by Allah so that they can clean their sins immediately and given a clean passport to Paradise.
- what is termed “evil” from our perspective is perceived as “good” acts and a duty as a Muslim to please Allah.
It is this “good” act that drive SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims.
The evidence is so glaring, i.e. one example is this [29,389] below;
There is a wide range of other types of evil besides the above terrible evils and violence.
Note in contrast, wiser religions like Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism, and the likes understood human nature and the vulnerability of the evil prone believers, and that is the reason these religions do not include leading evil elements in their main holy texts.
Islam and the Quran as authored by evil prone human[s] included loads of evil elements in their holy texts and they end up influencing and inspiring the unavoidable existence of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.
Therefore the rationale of promoting of good moral for the future of humanity is to get rid of the evil elements in the Quran* to prevent very desperate evil prone believers from being influenced by evil elements.
- or get rid of the whole Quran and Islam where possible.
Your argument seemingly is to keep* the evil elements in the Quran. Such a move will continue to enable the evil elements in the Quran to infect more evil prone Muslims [not curable at present] to commit more evils and violence in the present and the future.
- otherwise you are ignorant there are evil elements in the Quran, in that case you should read the Quran to check my claims.
The critical words related to the issues are too ambiguous to arrive at any precise conclusions. Again I suggest you read the Quran and Ahadiths to understand this issue.
As I had argued, the Quran do not allow any Muslim or human on Earth to decide whether the evil prone fundamentalists Muslims are right or wrong. As stated in the Quran, Allah is the final arbiter of all acts of any human being on Judgment Day.
So in the meantime the evil prone fundamentalist Muslims will continue to commit terrible evils and violence which from their perspective are ‘good’ acts as a duty of a Muslim to please Allah.
The “governments” consider creating war to be a major portion of their purpose.
To a point yes. But it is a minor very minor point. It is more about territory and strutting.
Prismatic,
No religious text is authored by anything other than humans. To believe otherwise is naive.
To remove any text from the Quran would be encouraging more disgruntled angry humans. You would be editing a sacred text. There are the now peaceful that would be outraged at the insulting attack. To remove the Quran entirely is even worse. Humans are dependent upon their religion of choice, it is their security blanket. Outsiders messing with that blanket has caused atrocities beyond what these terrorists have done or will do.
Again , infiltration, governments cooperating legitimately and cooperative understanding with the peaceful are the solutions. A very simple effective way could be pointing out the cowardice of the nonsuicidal leaders. A simple put up or shut up will remove possible recruits and quite likely any nonbrainwashed new recruits.
So is the Dalai Lama saying that those who facilitate terrorism are to be excommunicated from their religion?
Or that people should not think about terrorists who terrorize in the name of a religion as being members of said religion?
You can’t figure out the truth?
The Dalai Lama should live in the real world instead of attending cocktail parties.
The man is full of it.
Any man who kisses the Pope’s hand has to be.
and the Pope… kisses the Koran
BTW Buddhism is not recognised as a religion.
As a non-theist that is my point but note I stated this earlier,
Islam and the Quran as authored by evil prone human[s] included loads of evil elements in their holy texts and they end up influencing and inspiring the unavoidable existence of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.
To convince theistic Muslims there is no God would be another issue. While not addressing this point we need to convince all Muslims and non-Muslims [especially apologists like you] there are indeed loads of evil elements that influence SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence. We want them to understand the direct causes of the effects.
The point is at present the majority of Muslims [good and evil prone] do not accept there are evil laden elements in the Quran that are directly responsible in influencing SOME Muslims to commit evils and violence.
What is worst the majority of non-Muslims and their leaders are so ignorant of Islam and the Quran [& other texts] and they don’t have the intellectual integrity to read and understand what is in the Quran. As such, they blindly insist Islam and the Quran are fully good and peaceful when the fact is, Islam [Quran] in part is inherently evil and malignant.
The majority, i.e. the peaceful Muslims denounce those Muslims [the fundamentalists] who commit ‘evil’ acts as not-Muslims while those fundamentalists claim the peaceful Muslims are not true Muslims and some are hypocrites. This is why the jihadists are killing Muslims perceived as hypocrites and apostates.
When we prove and identify the factual direct link from cause to effects, i.e. there are evil elements in the Quran [& other texts] that directly cause [influence] SOME Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence, any average sensible rational Muslims and non-Muslims will accept that objective fact which then can be proven easily.
When the majority of non-Muslims and Muslims understand and are aware Islam [& Quran] in part [not whole] is factually evil and malignant, their consciousness and awareness of such a fact would change from their current stance to finding answers and solutions to such malignant evils. To insist Islam and Quran is wholly peaceful to the contrary would be stupidity then.
To reveal and accept the fact that Islam [Quran & other texts] is partly evil and malignant would be unpleasant for Muslims but it will not result in outraged and being insulting. This is like being outraged and insulting to the fact the Earth is not flat and the Earth orbit the Sun.
Note it is very normal to correct or remove anything that is potentially malignant away from humans, e.g. food or medicines that are found to contain poisonous or malignant elements are removed from shelves and not made available for normal human use. For example asbestos is a very cheap and useful building material but it is banned in many countries because it has malignant element in it.
So the very obvious logical solution to the partly Islam and Quran problem is to remove the malignant parts, i.e. the evil laden verses. The removal [editing] has to be the solution, and humanity will have to find ways to lessen the psychological impact to enable the truth to prevail.
The other alternative approach is to get rid of Islam [together with other religions subsequently]. At present with the existence of malignant evil elements, Islam is a threat to humanity now and in the future. Sooner of later religion [as defined] will run out of its shelf-life for humanity. The priority is to get rid of Islam and replace it with other benign religion in the immediate future. In the longer run humanity will replace all religions with fool-proof spiritual approaches to deal with the unavoidable existential DOOM.
Again you missed out many other important factors and variables.
The current fact is a percentile of % [appx 20%] of human are unfortunately born with evil tendencies and the hardcores/recalcitrants of them cannot be educated, trained or rehabilitated easily.
Therefore as long as
- 20% of evil prone Muslims with
- loads of evil elements in the Quran
exists, evil and violence will manifest in ALL sorts of ways and sources of human activities.
Your “simple” solutions addressing leaders of jihadists, and others will not work unless you get rid of the ultimate root causes. Note for example the leader of the Taliban, Bin Laden was killed but then many sub-groups of fundamentalists, jihadists and other fundamentalist emerged. Thus you may convinced some leaders to be peaceful but those evil prone who disagree will start their own groups as long as 1 and 2 above exist.
The main malignant cause is the ideology not the leader which can be replaced by any one infected with that evil ideology.
What you cannot ignore is the critical quantum of a potential of approximate 300 millions 
evil prone Muslims of various degrees. Only a few leaders from these 300 millions is necessary to influence the rest of the flock.
In addition, do not focus merely to the notable and evident evils and violence of terrorism. There is a full range of evils and violence committed by the evil prone within humanity, e.g. education [boko haram, Malala, etc.] politics, cultural, arts, misogyny, oppression of non-Muslims human rights, economics, social, cultural and other matters.
Your “simple-minded” solutions that ignore and not directly addressing factor 1 and 2 above will not work.
No talk of excommunication.
The effect of the Dalai Lama’s view in this case results in the deflection of the fact that Muslims terrorists has a direct link to Islam itself.
The Dalai Lama made the wrong assumption
- that ALL religions are peaceful and not evil,
- thus Islam as a religion must be peaceful and no evil,
- therefore there are no evil Muslim [Islamic] terrorists.
As I had argued in this thread, Islam [in part] is inherently evil and malignant thus influence SOME naturally born evil prone Muslims to commit very evident terrible evils and violence.
This whole thread is just fucked.
Who wants to talk shit about a guy like the Dalai Lama?
Why do you have such a hard on for Islam?
Are you just trolling, or can you really not understand the basic problems with what you’re saying?
Religion is a VERY loose term. In this post I argue Buddhism can be a non-theistic religion by consensus based on an agreed definition.
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Ninian Smart did a very extensive research on all the major religions in the world and noted they all share the following 7 dimensions, he called the Seven Dimensions of Religion.
www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/F … evendi.htm
A meaning and definition of a word is dependent of sufficient consensus and thus usable as defined and qualified. Note the meaning and definition of the word ‘gay’ in the present and that false “Islamophobia” which I do not agree with.