You said there must be external stimulus, presumably light, in order to experience colors. I said not necessarily. You might be able to see colors without light and eyes and yet not see them because the corresponding events in the brain are not taking place.
Because nothing is causing them to take place (e.g. light hitting the eyes.) But that does not mean that light hitting the eyes is the only thing that can cause them to take place. I think it was Amorphos who mentioned earlier an experiment in which man was made to see via his tongue.
I’m not a neuroscientist. I do not study relations between what is in the brain (e.g. neurons) and what is in the mind (e.g. colors.) Thus, as far as I am concerned, it may or may not be the case that there are certain states in the brain that are necessary and sufficient condition for the experience of colors.
What I am saying is that if you’re blind and have no idea what colors are that does not mean the experience of colors is dependent upon the presence of light. It could be simply that these states in the brain that have 1-to-1 correspondence with visual states are simply not activated because there is no external cause, such as light, that would do so.
In the absence of evidence, we have no choice but to conclude that light is necessary for the experience of colors. But this absence of evidence shouldn’t stop us from acquiring further evidence. We want to open up the brain – well, not exactly me, I think that’s a bit dirty – and see if there are any connections between what’s in there and what’s elsewhere.
Color is the very subject of this thread. If you cannot tell me what you mean by “color”, then you literally do not know what you are talking about, because color IS THE SUBJECT.
If that is what YOU mean when you say “color”, then in this thread, you are talking about a “property of an object”. You are NOT talking about a mentally assigned value or qualia. A property of an object can be objectively measured.
But is that what everyone else is talking about?
Probably not (hence senseless bickering).
I am pretty sure that everyone already knows what color is. Whether or not they can define it. It is certainly not true that you cannot know what something is without being able to express it using language or without being able to compare it to some other thing to which it is related.
You asked for a definition and I gave you one.
If you read my previous posts, instead of simply ignoring them, you would know that I am speaking of color qua quality.
My suspicion is that you are making no point whatsoever.
Logically you gave a definition by taking it from Google which in essence means that Google gave you one and therefore Google gave James a definition of Color/Colour - how about you offer one from your own brain/mind. I think that would be more interesting actually.
How are you “pretty sure that everyone already knows what color is”? That is a rather peculiar thing to say given that you can only be sure about what you know or would you disagree? I am not trying to be mean here Magnus - just trying to make some sense of what you are saying. I would be interested to know if you are completely sure about what you know.
Rational discourse it seems has become unlikely for the time being. Those who partake in this thread need to ask themselves a particular question if a plausible result for conversation is to be had. The beginning view, from what I see, falls upon being able to definitively give an answer(preferably to yourself) to whether you care about the original post.
Well, I didn’t think you were trying to be mean until you told me you weren’t trying to be mean.
He asked for a definition. I gave him one. He didn’t like it. Apparently, he’s asking for a specific definition. I don’t know what kind of definition he’s asking for and I don’t know for what purpose. In fact, I suspect he doesn’t know either.
We already know what color is. I am sure there is no ambiguity here. For those of us who have an experience of colors, at least.
One of the questions posed in the OP is whether qualities are real or not.
My approach is based on my judgment that we already know what qualities are but that we don’t know what the word “real” means.