Poverty in America

Hello tentative

That is a very interesting idea. In Spain the have something like that. But I think that there is no guarantee that people will not let the deterioration of their life become reflected in the deterioration of their homes. I think that is another reason why the communal clinic is so important because without working out the issues someones has (lack of education, two, three jobs, single parents, depression, substance abuse) society cannot hold them that accountable to maintaining the house. A nice home is not a cure (as you said, this issue is complicated), but I think that it is one of the ingredients to be added.

Wendy,

All solutions have to be local. The one size fits all solutions rarely succeed. The reason I don’t offer specific “solutions” is because I only know the problems to be solved in my area, my neighborhood, and the very specific issues faced by any individual. Sure, I can paint with a 5" house brush, “I know how to save the world”. But that is arrogant stupidity and we’ve all seen the failures of those so-called workable programs.

Sooo… What is workable? It literally takes one-on-one involvement between the helper and helpee. When I know ALL the problems you face then I can work toward helping you solve those problems. The rest is finding the helpers that can connect assets to the very specific problems. For instance, you don’t have a job? Then the solution is finding a job that is commensurate with your abilities. Oops. It may be more complex than that. You have a lack of income because in order to work a job you have to spend too much on child care for your three children. OR…There is a drug problem in the family that sucks up all available money. OR… the list can be very long. But never lose sight that any workable program is local, close up, and personal.

I realize that there is little satisfaction in what I’ve written here because it involves a shitload of hard work on everbodys part if anyones life is to be made “better”. I’m not willing to toss out generalizations because I’ve seen too many failures of those kinds of solutions. Keep it local, keep it personal.

The very first step in solving any problem is in seeing and understanding all the constituent parts of that problem. Hence, complexity. Whether it is having a nice living space, reliable transportation, adequate health care, Twinkies for breakfast, all the whatevers, these things can be provided if everyone does the hard work of finding the specific solutions. But as you suggest, there will be failures - lots of them. Why? Because of the sheer complexity of each individual life. Helpers can’t be expected to do everything or even know what some of the potential problems might be. At best, everyone does what they can do. But having a nice place to live certainly helps, if nothing but showing that living conditions CAN be better and perhaps other problems can be solved as well.

I thought that greed was the reason housing costs were so high. How does the landlord tenant act favor tenants in such a way to cause the cost of rents to skyrocket?

By favoring the tenant in almost every way. Part of the cost of running a business includes legal expenses. When the law favors the tenant, the landlord’s legal expenses go up. Hell, its almost impossible to evict someone who stops paying rent without them staying there another 6 months trying to fight you over fixing some bullshit that they probably broke themselves. Then even if you do win, and get a judgement against them which is rare, good luck garnishing the wages of some asshole who doesn’t even pay his rent.

But how are they favoring the tenant in every way? Where I live the eviction process takes about four weeks, involves the filing cost for the court and maybe sheriff costs to make sure they vacate the premises. In total no more than $500 and no lawyer is needed. Most tenants fail to appear in court.

Too many landlords listen to sob stories and promises that their rent is coming and meanwhile months pass without them getting paid. That’s how they lose money, but that is their own fault because its a hassle to do the whole court eviction thing and most slum landlords are lazy like that.

What?

A couple of posts ago, rents were high because of landlord greed.

Now landlords are either too lazy to collect rent or they are too nice and they let tenants get away with not paying on time.

:confused:

Where I live, tenants are favored. However, many landlords do not really know how to evict. These are the small players. Some do not hire lawyers. Some do not know their rights. Tenants, especially troublesome tenants, do know their rights. Here’s an example of how many poor people do have a strong social network. They often need to develop a social network that’s a bit more productive. That’s because, in the end, the landlord will win. It just takes a lot of time and sometimes money.

Yes, they are greedy and are willing to wait for their fat rents and unwilling to spend $500 to kick out people and end their fat rents for sure, then lose a month of their fat rent trying to fill that fat rent vacancy.

It just sounds like you are reacting to the last post that you read instead of having a consistent point of view. :frowning:

Do you have a point of view on it? You know, as opposed to simply arguing. :evilfun:

My biggest beef is with overpriced slummy apartments where they bring in desperate poor people who have no credit or job security to pay for unsafe/unsanitary living quarters in downtrodden neighborhoods. The slumlords know that they are going to get rent (maybe not all of it from each tenant), but they put no upkeep into those properties, so 90% of what they bring in is profit oriented. And those hellholes are usually overpriced by at least $100, some more, for what little they offer by way of conditions, amenities, neighborhood safety, pest control, working appliances, smoke detectors/fire extinguishers, safe stairways and building lighting, snow removal/lawn care, windows/doors that aren’t broken, roof maintenance, up to code electrical and plumbing, etc.

Lead paint and asbestos is just covered up, rather than removed.

That’s the nauseating part of supply and demand in a market economy. People who are desperate to get housing are exploited by landlords.

If there are rent controls, then the number of available housing units goes down and rents go up.

If there are no rent controls, then landlords can mercilessly gouge the tenants.

The only real solution is to educate and train people to earn enough money so that they have more control over their lives.

Or abandon the market and have complete government control over housing. :wink:

Why is everything an either or choice? Can’t a free market be loosely guided by socialistic requirements?

Socialism is the compromise between free market capitalism and communism. The USA has a version of socialism.

Honestly, a free market capitalism is too much for almost everyone to stomach. That’s why it doesn’t exist.

What’s the best mix of capitalism and socialism in this case of tenant vs. landlord and rental rates?

I don’t think that there is a simple answer to that question. A small number of landlords and tenants will abuse every system. The legal system is so slow and ineffective that abuse is encouraged rather than discouraged.

The practical/pragmatic answer is closer to the capitalist end of the spectrum rather than the socialist end. That’s simply because greed and self interest are faster and more responsive to needs than central planning.

Favored by housing court.

By example i mean that generally, poor people lack a strong social network.(Exceptions are still-insular recent immigrant groups.) But when they are trying get stuff (like occupancy for one more month, despite eviction) they often have a plethora of advocacy groups and knowledge among the group to help them beat the system. Which they usually can, for a while. I have met people who can’t hold a job for half a day but can sniff out a free ham sandwich on the other side of town.

A more productive social network would form if they would avail themselves of existing social institutions. Try to learn how to work the system rather than beat it short term. Today, I suggested to an out of work individual (long story) that he contact the ACLU. he had no idea what ACLU meant. I’m going to try to get him some free legal advice and have asked a colleague to call in a favor to try to get him a job. Despite that he lied to me, misrepresented his situation. Despite that he has lied to my colleague. And blown her off when he had an appointment. And wouldn’t think of thanking me if I got him straightened out. It’s difficult to help people when they lie to you, sometimes.

And he lied because I’m a guy in a tie and poor people are taught to mistrust and even despise those that are not poor. The way you, wendy, are trying to teach people. Social networks are built on trust and trustworthiness.

Evictions take time and money because tenants have more procedural rights than landlords.

The landlord tenant act is a federal law, that is mirrored in state law in all the states if I’m not mistaken. It favors the tenant. This is common knowledge.

Here we go with the inane accusations. When have I ever dissed a tie?