Income Disparity

tent - my friend is a first generation, yes. So, social network. There are many reason why poor people don’t have one, or enough of one. The reasons I have heard, from such people include but are not limited to: They’re on drugs and their family has disowned them. They get shuttled around by state agencies and so are living far from home. They don’t work, which limits their contacts with people who can help. They are perhaps single moms, who don’t have time for anything but work and kids. They are mentally ill. They have criminal records, which makes it difficult to find decent housing in a neighborhood that isn’t full of people who share their plight.

We talked once about how your average poor person is one $300 car breakdown away from disaster. Unfortunately, increasing their income by $300 doesn’t solve the problem. We have a bus system where I live. Very low ridership. I am told by the operator of the local food pantry that no one uses the bus or walks to get there - they either drive or get a ride. I have seen homeless people, who were housed temporarily in a motel, refuse housing because it didn’t have air conditioning.

John Rawls made a great point about distributive justice - that what each of us could reasonably want by way of social justice is that when one group benefits, say from a government police, all groups should have their reasonable expectations met.

But what is a reasonable expectation? many, but not all, poor people need hope, education, substance abuse counseling and a kick in the ass. It’s tough to succeed if you don’t believe you can. But just as teenage girls unreasonably see a Kardashian as the paragon of beauty, poor people are taught that without a college education, they’re screwed. It’s just not true. We should not have an education system that has as its only goal a college degree and a Colonial in a gated community. Shit, if i gave you a Colonial in a gated community, you’d sell it and probably buy a camper and then we’d never hear from you again.

There was a WIC program running right next to my pawnshop. We shared the same parking lot. I watched all sorts of people pull up with pickup loads of food just trying to help out those in need. At the same time, I watched the clients of this program drive in to get what help was offered. At the time, I was driving a 13 year old Ford Ranger. It’s only a guess, but probably 95% of the vehicles going in to WIC were much newer than my old pickup. Quite a few were brand new. They could afford a new car but needed help from the taxpayers and goodhearted helpers to have food? If I were a true blue conservative, I should have been screaming that this program should be stopped. Those people aren’t poor. Look at the cars they’re driving! But since a lot of those same people were my clients as well, I knew better. Lots of different reasons, lots of bad decisions…

College? Maybe. For some, not for others. But an education? Absolutely critical! All an education can really provide that counts is flexibility in the old thinker. If you cannot see all the alternative ways to deal with a problem you’re uneducated. That is why so many programs of help fail. You say its tough to succeed if you don’t believe you can. I’d go further and say you can’t succeed if the only problem solution you can see is a guaranteed failure. Devising plan A isn’t too difficult, but success depends on plan B or plan C or… Education is not knowing what to think, but in knowing how to think. That is what is missing in too many of those who end up poor.

A colonial in a gated community? I’m honored! :blush: You really don’t have to, but it is a nice offer. I know… why don’t you set up an ILP gofundme thingy to get me that colonial? Of course it would have to include the promise that I’ll go away forever. I’m sure that there are enough ILPers who would like to see me gone to generate a sizable amount of cash - or maybe the minimum down payment? I’ve scoped out this nice little island in the Queen Charlettes and… :mrgreen:

Tent - I’ve had three Rangers. Good little trucks. So, we are back to choices. A couple of months ago, I came into part of a small inheritance. I put most of it in the bank. Where it still is. I will use some to make a DP on a car, soon. My wife’s car runs like crap, looks like crap - it might be the worst car in town. Making ominous noises. It’s near the end. It’s time.

What I don’t put towards the car, I will keep in the bank.

I wasn’t always so frugal. I know what it’s like. I went through a time when I spent it all, maxed out my cards, and worse. I was vagabonding around the eastern seaboard. I was often broke. I was never poor.

Now, it’s different. I got married again. Working a regular day job.

I made the transition because I had a heart attack and almost died (myocardial infarction in the widowmaker). I was always god at getting a job - none of which required a college degree. I got some because I know how to network. I have and know how to work my social network. I have my present job mostly because I helped a friend get his job.

By the way, when I had the MI, I had no health insurance. After release from the hospital, I went to the business office for my bill. I was planning to negotiate the price down (because I know you can and I know how to) but they told me that i had to apply for “free care” first. Those were the rules. I told them I could get a loan (it would pretty much be a car payment) but they told me I had to wait. I qualified for free care, despite that I was making just under 50k at the time.

The reason? With free care they get all the money and they get it right away. There’s something wrong with the system.

Faust,

Is there something wrong with the health care system? Is a pigs ass pork? Yes to the free care dilemma. The trick now is to milk medicare for all you can get. First, should you need any “elective” surgery, the doc won’t do anything till their surgical plan is approved by medicaid and/or the supplemental insurance company. Then the hospital or outpatient surgical center wants some upfront money. Everyone involved wants guaranteed money. Beyond that, they know that they will only receive a portion of the bills presented so they inflate the begeesus out of the bill. Supposedly, everyone goes away happy.

The answer to all of the healthcare issues is simple. Just die, Faust. And hurry it up. There are more standing in line.

Getting a reasonable health care system in place will be the biggest headache this country will face for a loooong time.

You think Warren Buffet lives like a pauper?

Hoardes wealth? Maybe. Financially supports like half the economy? Probably.

What are his crimes? Being the biggest philanthropist in history? Having the best combination of discipline and ability to speculate ever?

You don’t like Warren Buffet??

Warren Buffet doesn’t support the economy, the economy, its resources (workers and the Earth’s natural resources) support him.

Buffet is good for the economy in that he places a lot of good bets. Good companies should be rewarded and bad companies should be penalized. That’s the free market. But you’re both right - he doesn’t make money for the companies, they make money for him.

What is a good company? What is a bad company? And how should bad companies be penalized?

Mr. Reasonable is never right as a contrarian? It’s realistically impossible.

A good company makes a profit. A bad company loses money. Bad companies are penalized by going out of business.

But you want a good company to do something good for people. Right?

That’s the thing … a profitable company may be making people sick. It may be destroying the general welfare of a society.

‘Good’ can mean many things to many people.

A good company in my view does everything right while making a profit, their profit may not be as enormous as a company willing to cut every corner to make more profits. Are there any type of my good companies anymore?

All employees are paid a decent wage and shown that they are valueable
The Earth’s environment and its resources are respected
Craftmanship in a product means more than the amount of product created

I have more to list but this headache is an SOB.

That doesn’t mean anything because “everything” and “right” are so nebulous.

There will always be someone who says that a company is doing something wrong.

Are you referring to collateral damage or a bitch/bastard who simply likes to complain?

No matter how morally responsible or ecologically responsible or how much a company gives back to the community, there will be some wienie who says that it’s not enough. And he actually believes that he’s right.

Such is life.

There is no such thing as a “good” company in todays market - and it is unlikely that there ever will be. The general welfare? That is the last thing on the list to be considered. So-called good companies are compelled not only to make a profit, but to meet quarterly wall street predictions of that profit. A company may be doing quite well, but should they miss the projected earnings in any quarter, their stock loses value as investors scramble to find “better” earnings stocks. Moreover, there is no retirement fund program out there that isn’t tied into the market.

To ask or tell any company to share more of its profits with employees sounds warm and fuzzy, but almost guarantees that investors will dump that companys stock in one day or less. If all or most companies were to be forced into such an arrangement, the whole stock market would collapse - along with any and all retirement fund programs.

The stock market, even with all the scams and general BS associated, are a reflection of the general economy and wealthy and poor alike are vulnerable to any sudden shift. We saw this in the last crash where millions of people watched their retirement monies get flushed down the toilet. Is income disparity solvable by BIG changes? Popping the balloon sounds like satisfying fun, but is disaster for all. Any plausible reversible scheme means finding ways to let the air out of the balloon slowly.

When defining “good”, it’s a good idea to think through the consequences…

It has little to do with the stock market. Most companies are not listed on the stock market. Most are privately held. The general definition of a “good company” is that it makes a profit.

It has everything to do with the stock market.

Consider: In the crash the auto industry was going tits up. The biggies were going to flush a big chunk of change down the toilet. But that was the tip of the iceberg. There were thousands of small companies supplying parts to the biggies that would have been flushed as well. They weren’t listed on the stock market, but they were damn well tied to it. Think about all the small mom and pop businesses that catered to those parts suppliers. They would have been affected as well. It’s dominoes and if a fortune 500 business goes down, it takes a shitload of those small businesses with them.

The point I’m trying to make is that it is all interconnected and whatever the “good” fix, you need to also see who is going to be hurt - including the guy running the hotdog cart.

Say no more.

Really.

So here’s what i meant. In the context of Buffet, I was talking about stock companies. Although Buffet may buy privately held or closely held companies as well. I meant pretty much what phyllo said - healthy companies. With no regard to how they treat their employees. In this way, buffet helps the economy, although he may not help society as a whole. or he might.

But back to income disparity. By some measures - and I have not done the math myself, you need to earn roughly $32,000 per year to be in the top one percent income in the world.

Yeah, the top one percent in the world. Adjusted for the cost of living.

Now, i think that’s a bit misleading but the point stands. Americans do not walk miles for enough food and firewood to stay alive. Poor people in america own more than two shirts and a goat.

That’s not to say we can’t do better. But income disparity is not the real problem. If i could convince you that it’s possible that no worker in this country earn less than 60K but only if the income of the top ten percent doubles, would this be bad? I’m not going to try to convince you, but what about it?

The fact is that there will always be poor people because poverty is measured against wealth. Not against failure to subsist.

Some of the one percent are entertainers, including athletes. Some are doctors. Some are entrepreneurs. Is this a problem?

A company can be profitable by painting radon paint on watches and aircraft instruments. The women doing the painting die of cancer. The people who repair the instruments die of cancer. Disposal of all that radioactive stuff is a dangerous and complicated problem.

The company is ‘good’ because it generated a profit.

Asbestos. Want to talk about that?

Good company does not mean good for everyone.

I think you’re dramatically undervaluing financial discipline and the ability to organize in a speculative environment.

Like a person who thinks a doctor is just a dumbass who only writes prescriptions and is therefore overpaid. You don’t seem to have a clue as to the complexity of what funds like Berkshire Hathaway do.