Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:13 am

Some Guy in History wrote:I wonder what evidence you would actually consider and accept as 'actual', if you won't accept what is able to be presented. You haven't been able to disprove it

When nothing is what is presented, nothing is what I accept. Nothing is provable to those who have no concept of evidence other than their personal, passionate belief (hence faith based religions). People have only two options; logic or faith. Without logic, faith is their only avenue.

I can only prove things to people who can actually analytically and rationally think. My "evidence" involves logic and rationality. If I wanted merely faith based followers, I would be giving an extremely different presentation.

Jakob wrote:Are Jews half alien?

Always.
Why are you obsessed with Jews?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:12 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:There is no such thing as logical evidence


Of course there isn't.
Logic is merely the manner in which we assume what is unknown to us. (It has nothing to do with language.)
For example, when we're forming our predictions we are using logic.
And this process is usually -- not necessarily -- based on what we know (i.e. our personal experience.)
Most of the intelligence is data-driven.
The more data (a.k.a. experience) you have, the smarter (or more precisely, the wiser) you are.
Logic plays a minimal role.
Any computer can easily be programmed to use logic i.e. to make conclusions regarding the unknown.
Feeding it with experience is the difficult task.
Our brains are huge not because logic is something very complex but because they store a lot of information.
There is a very good reason why AI research is moving away from algorithm-driven approaches towards data-driven approaches.
The excessive focus on logic is how inexperienced people overcompensate for their lack of experience.
Last edited by Magnus Anderson on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:16 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Logic is merely the manner in which we assume what is unknown to us. (It has nothing to do with language.)
For example, when we're forming our predictions we are using logic.

Logic is the consistency in thought and language, without which, there can be no empirical observations of anything and certainly no scientific agreements.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:18 pm

I am pretty sure you are right. There can be no observations unless there is language in place. Language evolved long before the senses. Makes perfect senselanguage.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:33 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:I am pretty sure you are right. There can be no observations unless there is language consistency in place. Language Consistency evolved existed long before the senses. Makes perfect sense and language.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Jakob » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:13 pm

James S Saint wrote:Consistency evolved existed long before the senses. Makes perfect sense and language.

Exactly right.

Fixed Cross wrote:Fundamental to mans consistent being-as-himself, is his activity of valuing in terms of himself. By this he assimilates material and grows as himself. How is a consistent valuing possible? The simple answer would be: by being a consistent subject. But this only create a a circular argument, and leaves open the question of how there can be a valuing, a being. How does a subject maintain its perspectival consistency, its structural integrity, whereby it values in terms of itself? To explain this we must posit a self-valuing, which is to say, a holding-oneself-as-value, whereby this “oneself” is nothing else than this consistent holding-as-value, in engaging the outer world. This consistency of a self-holding standard-value, is what amounts to being, the accumulation of more and more material to feed and sustain a structurally consistent growing, “a becoming”.

We are faced with the problem of identifying in technical, specific terms what this self-valuing is.  We may not be able to describe or define it in the terms we are used to, in which we like to acquire knowledge, the terms which are developed to describe the manifest in exact measurements. The collection of these terms and their proper logic, that of mathematics, is what we refer to as exact science.

Observing the manifest world in scientific terms, we use principles such as quantity, causality, energy-tranferring and interacting, motion, temporality. All these are enabled and interconnected by the laws of mathematics, which is the logic of objective equalies. It relies on given and exactly determined values, which can be defined in terms of each other. It is here that the philosophy of value ontology posits a break with the method of science. The philosopher is not satisfied with positing values as if they are unquestionably given, it is his task to investigate why, or more precisely, how they are given. Mathematics can not provide an answer to this, as such would go directly against the axioms of this science, which include always the word “if”. If "A" is given, then A is given as A. It does not posit that A is given - it is as if A can be anything - which is not the case. Possibilities are limited. Deepening of logical power occurs now that we have abstract terms for the possibility of existing.

The aim is to embed language into being, to absolve it of its abstracting, detaching compulsion. The means is to embed being into grammar.

The great philosophersof the modern age have attemped such positive statements in various ways, beginning with Descartes, who posited the certainty “I think therefore I am”, or, read properly in context, “I question that anything is, therefore I am”.  Nietzsche and others observed that this “I” who questions is not actually given as an exactly understandable unit. What is this “I” that is, and that questions that anything is, and that posits that he is because he questions that anything is? Descartes accomplished bringing himself the experiential certainty that there is such a thing as himself. He does not bring the certainty that anything else is, in fact he calls this somewhat into question, challenges the other to reveal itself at least to itself; he does not reveal what they are or why they can be said to exist; If the only ground for knowledge of what is is to cognate in the way Descartes was doing, then only thinkers can be known to exist, and only by themselves. Clearly this is not a useful definition of being. It is also not an exact application of logic, as it assumes the “I” both in "I think" and "I exist". The terms “I”, “exist” and “think” are not a mathematical terms: “I exist” can not mathematically be inferred from “I think”.

To draw certainty from Descartes logic, we must look at the meaning of the word “Am” in “I Am”. We must correctly observe the meaning of the verb “to be”.We must logically be satisfied with the given that what we call “being” by definition is in being (exists) - this is the only meaningful and correct way to employ the verb at all. The analytical certainty is “I am, therefore I am”. By this phrase, “I” is defined, namely, as that which, apparently, is said by itself to exist. What have we come to know by this? Nothing.

It is here that philosophy must break from science, from the pretense to be able to define the terms “I” and “exist” and “cognate” in terms of each other by exact inference. We must simply be honest, and admit that all three of these terms are simply understood by us, to mean precisely... what we understand by them! No further explication is necessary, no more exact explication is possible. The terms were called into being to describe exactly what we mean when we use the terms. They hold no deeper meaning than what they were invented to convey.

So to further philosophical understanding, that to which the terms “I” and “think” and “exist” were invented to convey must be explicated in more exacting terms. We can observe that these terms all three of them refer to the very same thing. “I”, “think” and “am” are all words indicating the same. This also includes the things to which other terms refer, such as “eat” or “walk”. As true as “I think, therefore I am” is, is also “I eat, therefore I am”. By disconnecting Descartes logic from his situation in which it emerged, we see that the “I” is posited as a condition of “think”, as much as “think” is a condition of “I”. Therefore, when I posit that “I eat”, I posit an “I” which, by common interpretation of grammar, means that I posit that (an) “I” exist(s).

We see that “I” simply means “existing” and that this existing can be expressed in the endless variety of verbs that may pertain to a posited I. That is all the I is; it allows a verb to make sense, to indicate an activity.

The I is thus always an activity.

In short, we relate activity to values, we act to express and obtain values, and these values allows us to continue acting. The values thus reflect a central value, the acting agent, the "I", who is by all acts bestowing value on himself and so creating his world, which is largely defined by the way he encounters it. If he encounters it consistently, he becomes master over it. If he encounters it according to the ways in which the world engages him, he becomes slave to it. In a normal being, there is a balance. Happiness in mastery increasing, unhappiness is responsiveness increasing. Depression is overloaded responsiveness. The only cure for depression is physical, physiological expression of anger and undergoing the consequences with a measure of of indifferent curiosity toward ones own psychology, so that one can begin discerning ones natural values and reject imposed, unnatural ones.

To exist, one must be able to value consistently, which means that the standard must be consistent. I act so to obtain a value, an object, a thing-and-goal. But if I do not structurally attain my goals, my self-valuing will suffer. So establishing the appropriate values is implicit in existing. Since all that I do is predicated and justified by a specific type of valuing, and since “I” can only be explicated in terms of what I do, the I is nothing besides this establishing-value-to-myself. This is what we seek to maintain or repair - the activity of structurally setting attainable values, the attainment of which will result in a capacity to attain higher values. This is how power increases, by structural value-setting. In man, this needs to be conscious, because those that do this consciously win, defeat others. Man is conscious being so his self-valuing needs to be conscious in order for his integrality, his structural integrity, his 'soul', to survive. His intellect needs consistency.

Ontologically, in all cases the value-establishing to the I leads to a continuation of its capacity to set values for itself, this type of valuing must be understood as a constant, a type of valuing that is itself a consistency, a standard of value -- which means that its consistency must be understood as an activity.

Consistency is the fundamental activity.

We can verify this in terms of the periodic table and at the same time we so verify the logic of this categorization that nature apparently produces on her own accord, by asking what makes for a consistency of an elements. We may consider the most consistent to be those which are least influenced by other elements or energies. The are the 'noble' elements. What make as an element noble is that it does not change internally in reaction to outward stimuli. It holds no potential for internal change, is never inconsistent with itself. It is universe enclosed in itself, all of its values are perfectly attainable, for ever.  Gold is this absolutely active; it holds in its structure the maximum amount activities, its many electron rings are filled, its inner tensions are all in play. Maximization of activity within a given structure amounts to a maximal consistency.

Contemplate the correspondence between consistency, activity, the noble elements, and value.







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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 pm

Jakob wrote:[Jakob Milikowski 2011/2012]

As I said .. "advertising".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Jakob » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:48 pm

Sourcing. It took you long enough to pretend the idea is yours but I knew you would, as your entire theory is a ripoff of mine. Unfortunately you bothced the ripping and didnt make a coherent fake. So now I have to point people to the source of your terminology so they can unbotch what you botched.

Life feels like work sometimes.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:58 pm

Jakob wrote:Sourcing. It took you long enough to pretend the idea is yours but I knew you would, as your entire theory is a ripoff of mine. Unfortunately you bothced the ripping and didnt make a coherent fake. So now I have to point people to the source of your terminology so they can unbotch what you botched.

Life feels like work sometimes.

Yeah, I imagine keeping track of your twisted lies and dementia is a bit of work.

I have to ask, exactly what profit do you expect to gain from these attacks on me? They don't even come close to diminishing me. They are in fact revealing your own lack of integrity. So you have a definite negative from them, but where is the positive?

Perhaps you were not merely conned into attacking me, but also conned into defeating yourself.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Some Guy in History » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:36 am

A little bit pissy and petty, James? 8)
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Mithus » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:07 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:A little bit pissy and petty, James? 8)

I think that James is extremely patient with Jakob. It's somehow tragic to watch Jakobs state of mind becoming gradually worse over the years. Not that I am particularly interested in it, but when you want to learn something about RM:AO and try to follow James' posting history, you permanently stumble over Jakobs posts, wherein he frequently asked James for advice.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Some Guy in History » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:14 pm

Mithus wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:A little bit pissy and petty, James? 8)

I think that James is extremely patient with Jakob. It's somehow tragic to watch Jakobs state of mind becoming gradually worse over the years. Not that I am particularly interested in it, but when you want to learn something about RM:AO and try to follow James' posting history, you permanently stumble over Jakobs posts, wherein he frequently asked James for advice.


I think, that, while Jakob is a bit hard to follow, for it being a different tract of mind, that James is far more aggravating in both the short term and long term. James is far less the true philosopher for all of his philosophizing and theorizing, he is ever far from the point at hand, and ever not on purpose.

It's somehow tragic to see how Jakob at least gets the point, but is seemingly; in the eyes of the blind; stupid and losing mental consistency and slipping.

I think, Mithus, that you look at how 'good' James looks by having a seeming flow and cadence to his words, while Jakob seems to slip in grace, and yet, if you actually read any of James' work, you will not find, ever, a single shred of actual meat or material, just roundabout wording to make himself look good without actually knowing anything at all. An attentionwhore, while Jakob sticks to actuality and is closer to being a true philosopher and theorizer, no matter how misunderstood or misperceived.
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Mithus » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:14 pm

LOL. Actually all you wrote is correct, but you confused the two of them. What you said about James applies to Jakob and vice versa.
And btw., I read a lot of RM:AO, but I doubt that you did.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:05 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:I am pretty sure you are right. There can be no observations unless there is language consistency in place. Language Consistency evolved existed long before the senses. Makes perfect sense and language.


You went from saying "logic is consistency in language" to saying "logic is consistency in thought AND language". I don't see how that's any better. In the first case, you are saying that language evolved long before the senses. In the second case, you are saying that thought evolved long before the senses. Either way, it is not good. Now you're leaving out both thinking and language and simply saying that consistency existed (and certainly not evolved) long before the senses. All of this indicates to me, and it does so very strongly, that your way of thinking is backwards. You are explaining what is lower-level, primary or fundamental (e.g. senses) in terms of what is higher-level, secondary or superficial (e.g. language, thought, consistency, etc.)
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:12 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote: In the first case, you are saying that language evolved long before the senses. In the second case, you are saying that thought evolved long before the senses.

I said that CONSISTENCY EXISTED before senses. And that logic is the consistency in language and thought in order to track reality (language and thought being almost the same thing).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Some Guy in History » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:14 pm

Mithus wrote:LOL. Actually all you wrote is correct, but you confused the two of them. What you said about James applies to Jakob and vice versa.
And btw., I read a lot of RM:AO, but I doubt that you did.


What I said about James applies to James and what I said of Jakob is to be applied to Jakob. I am guessing that in RM:AO, Jakob was made to APPEAR to be lesser in stature; obviously a feat not too hard to attain if Jakob is easily misconstrued or misperceived, which is obviously the case. I don't need to read the thread in its entirety to know what James is like, and I have seen Jakob in many other places other than that thread in these same boards where I have agreed with more of what Jakob has said, understanding him better than perhaps most do and have very little to agree with that comes through James.

Jakob remains a little harder to understand because of his unique entrance from his train of thought, his tract, and where most others remain and are. Thus, it is easier to stymie him, easier to frustrate him, easier to wrap him up in the false reason and logic that James is famous for across these boards, not just in RM:AO.

That is accumulative evidence. Anyone can be made to look foolish and I remind you that appearances aren't as damning as so many deceivers would like us all to think and believe that they are.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Jakob » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:36 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:
Mithus wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:A little bit pissy and petty, James? 8)

I think that James is extremely patient with Jakob. It's somehow tragic to watch Jakobs state of mind becoming gradually worse over the years. Not that I am particularly interested in it, but when you want to learn something about RM:AO and try to follow James' posting history, you permanently stumble over Jakobs posts, wherein he frequently asked James for advice.


I think, that, while Jakob is a bit hard to follow, for it being a different tract of mind, that James is far more aggravating in both the short term and long term. James is far less the true philosopher for all of his philosophizing and theorizing, he is ever far from the point at hand, and ever not on purpose.

It's somehow tragic to see how Jakob at least gets the point, but is seemingly; in the eyes of the blind; stupid and losing mental consistency and slipping.

I think, Mithus, that you look at how 'good' James looks by having a seeming flow and cadence to his words, while Jakob seems to slip in grace, and yet, if you actually read any of James' work, you will not find, ever, a single shred of actual meat or material, just roundabout wording to make himself look good without actually knowing anything at all. An attentionwhore, while Jakob sticks to actuality and is closer to being a true philosopher and theorizer, no matter how misunderstood or misperceived.

I used to have a great bond with James, in 2010 especially. We worked together quite efficiently and have often agreed on issues. My falling out with him came in an unfortunate time for ILP in general.

It is quite wonderful to read your analysis, or judgment, it appears you have been paying quite close attention to my process, which is, rather than flattering, encouraging. You don't need to feel sorry for me (if you happen to) for being misunderstood and attacked by goons - I have a good number of very good friends who now all work with my theory in some form, and beyond my friends, my work is being appreciated quite wide and far by now. I am very proud of my accomplishments. ILP is a snakepit, but it is my snakepit. Without its trolls and goons, I would not have been forced to make so much sense so aggressively. Ive cultivated enormous pride in being able to emotionally withstand the often truly subhuman "criticisms" and slip from grace less and less.

2013 and '14 were difficult years for me. It was sometimes actually the case that James was right, and I was wrong. Now, that doesn't happen, Im no longer wrong at anything significant, Ive honed my position to a diamond. I have the impression James also needs another positive phase, as I find he has been less prolific in developing his logic in recent years.

So let me just bless James, thank him for the relentless work he has done here, and pronounce the hope that he will continue to be of value to independent minds.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Jakob wrote: Im no longer wrong at anything significant, Ive honed my position to a diamond.

Except for your lies.

I have never had objection to anyone following you. I have never instigated attack upon you. I have never lied about you. You are not so innocent. And until you correct the many lies that you have pronounced, you will remain a liar. And take care, liars have no actual following, merely the blind and the pretending.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25426
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Meno_ » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:55 pm

To return to the topic,albeit lately, the question posed depends on the logical assumption of cyclicality bearing on two states of differance: ;immknence and transcendence.the logical and if the cosmological states, are consistent, then the psychological use of the will to power is proof positive of an overcoming of chaos.


In case of the transcendent, no such need arises and duplicity defeats the logical basis of the sense for coherence.

Could it be raised that the question of the entropic progression toward decay is merely the effect of the difference between the cosmologic and structural cohesion, whereby the difference becomes evidence of effects of fear, toward change and consequent need for repetition?

If such and the quantum changes do increasingly effect the
consistency between them, even as similarity - is shown structurally in language, in the positive sense of it.

Could this effect be the increasing revelation of the primary significance of the sense of the need for consistency and consequently imminent state of cosmological equivalency?

Then, the only function of repetition could be the fear behind the demolition of Man, as a creation resembling god.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby James S Saint » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:37 pm

As the mathematics turns out, even given an infinite eternity of time, the 3D universe could never, ever exactly duplicate itself. Every single instant of time, throughout eternal time, is and will always be unique. The universe has no opportunity to repeat or cycle.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:32 pm

James S Saint wrote:As the mathematics turns out, even given an infinite eternity of time, the 3D universe could never, ever exactly duplicate itself. Every single instant of time, throughout eternal time, is and will always be unique. The universe has no opportunity to repeat or cycle.


mathematics and logic is an approximation of reality, it is not reality.
reality is found in the waters of imagination and watery thought.

Logic works like this.

If I do A, X will happen.
2+2=4.

Now, this works 99% of the time in almost every scenario, but it starts to fail when used for complex systems.

Because logic works as a tree system, it only presents binary options. It often fails to predict outcomes of complex systems.
If I drop a leaf, where will it fall?

Logic doesn't tell you where it will fall, only that it will fall. And not even that.
For all you know, a random volcano could explode and incinerate the leaf before it even falls.

Goddamn, I'm smart. #feeling like a narcissist


In order to analyze and predict complex systems, we use logic, mathematics, and statistics.
Unfortunately, there are no statistics telling us what will happens to the universe every universal cycle, or if there even has been a universal cycle.


...What is the point of this quest? What fruits will you yield from this journey?
...It seems to me that the journey is the fruit of this quest. A quest of vanity.
...What truth, what emotions are to be found? Will you ever live long enough to verify the end of the universe, and it's new beginning (if any?)
...It seems like you are all on a quest of vanity, to temporarily satisfy your egos with solutions to puzzles that will never be confirmed, never verified.
...Is it not more logical to instead, focus on your own immortality, before focusing on the end of the universe?
...Perhaps what compels you is this feeling of hope in darkness, hope that someone will understand, solve the puzzle for you, and save you.
...Save you by helping you to find out where you came from, what you are, and your ultimate fate.
...But how can they save you when they cannot even save themselves?

It is time for little boys and little girls to move on, and stop playing endlessly with little toys in the attic.
God is dead.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Jakob » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:59 pm

James S Saint wrote:As the mathematics turns out, even given an infinite eternity of time, the 3D universe could never, ever exactly duplicate itself. Every single instant of time, throughout eternal time, is and will always be unique. The universe has no opportunity to repeat or cycle.

VO has the same outcome.

Of all past philosophers known to me, Henri Bergson did the work most pertinent to this issue. His idea is roughly that the present is always an accumulation of all moments of the past, so reality is effectively growing in content, so that no moment is never reducible to its previous instance. There is no reverse-engineering time. A simple image he uses is the snowball rolling from a snow-covered slope, which in its downward motion (as a metaphor for the direction of time) grows ever larger.

Of course this is not an actual logical explanation. But any logic that has a securely established a minimal unit rather than a presumed Whole as its ground, would defy the idea of existence being so passive as to simply move obediently in circles, as such minimal-ontologies all show how any instance of existence necessarily has outward consequences only a small part of which directly arrive back at the source - the universe thus comprises enormous and increasing amounts of excess.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Meno_ » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:40 pm

. The more uncertainty, the more referentiality, The vital is pretty much in line with the will to power and the question is the residual of excess, its exhaustive llimitation to sense.

At that point the difference becomes irresolute. Then the question of preference of either can change the assumptions of probability or the question of limits can change the assumptions over which the function can best describe that state.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:25 pm

Jakob wrote:Of all past philosophers known to me, Henri Bergson did the work most pertinent to this issue. His idea is roughly that the present is always an accumulation of all moments of the past, so reality is effectively growing in content, so that no moment is never reducible to its previous instance. There is no reverse-engineering time. A simple image he uses is the snowball rolling from a snow-covered slope, which in its downward motion (as a metaphor for the direction of time) grows ever larger.

Of course this is not an actual logical explanation. But any logic that has a securely established a minimal unit rather than a presumed Whole as its ground, would defy the idea of existence being so passive as to simply move obediently in circles, as such minimal-ontologies all show how any instance of existence necessarily has outward consequences only a small part of which directly arrive back at the source - the universe thus comprises enormous and increasing amounts of excess.


That is an interesting thought exercise, however untrue it may be, and I appreciate that, because it's interesting to think in new ways about things.

In actuality, there is always a limited amount of memory available, and contents flux. Memories are replaced, purged, and refilled with similar things. There is not an infinite buildup of excess.
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Re: Eternal Return. Cyclical Time Theory.

Postby Jakob » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Jakob wrote:Of all past philosophers known to me, Henri Bergson did the work most pertinent to this issue. His idea is roughly that the present is always an accumulation of all moments of the past, so reality is effectively growing in content, so that no moment is never reducible to its previous instance. There is no reverse-engineering time. A simple image he uses is the snowball rolling from a snow-covered slope, which in its downward motion (as a metaphor for the direction of time) grows ever larger.

Of course this is not an actual logical explanation. But any logic that has a securely established a minimal unit rather than a presumed Whole as its ground, would defy the idea of existence being so passive as to simply move obediently in circles, as such minimal-ontologies all show how any instance of existence necessarily has outward consequences only a small part of which directly arrive back at the source - the universe thus comprises enormous and increasing amounts of excess.


That is an interesting thought exercise, however untrue it may be, and I appreciate that, because it's interesting to think in new ways about things.

In actuality, there is always a limited amount of memory available, and contents flux. Memories are replaced, purged, and refilled with similar things. There is not an infinite buildup of excess.

Well, that is hard to prove one way or the other.
Excess within the human cognitive realm, such as the ocean of semi coherent memories, is accessible to consciousness on very limited terms. Plus memory gets rewritten all the time, probably less than half of our memories actually happened, the rest was intimated to us in other ways. We may actually attain the memory of something a lady next to us in the bus as we were dozing off was telling her kid. Theres a bunch of proof on this.

What is limited however is the order in which things can be perceived and interpreted and "known", as "existent".

The buildup of excess may be seen as infinite without this even having the slightest implication about infinity of contents.
One could see excess as the medium.
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