Should a good Christian overthrown God?

Are you’re making a distinction between “the morality of God/Jesus” and “the morality of God/Jesus as espoused by their fundamentalist counterparts”.
If so, what is it?

I am happy to put an argument for my position.

Divorce is a remedy offered to those who are not happy with their mates for reasons that could include anything from abuse to just living in loveless situations. All have a right and duty to themselves to seek loving relationships.

To deny anyone the right to seek a loving relationship and life partner is immoral.

I await your argument for a no-divorce policy.

Regards
DL

Yes. The latter believes in a literal hell. a place of eternal punishment, while the former admits the possibility of universal reconciliation with God. Universal salvation of human souls makes God not a loser to some mythical Satan. As the fundies would have it, 99% of the human race is doomed to suffer forever in horrific torment.
But this is an aside. Where is the writer of the OP?

Hate Christ??

We follow the teaching of Christ and strive to activate our Christ minds. Christians call it a rebirth, Gnostic Christians call it more like growing up.

I often quote these as a main part of seeking apotheosis via Gnosis.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note the following that has Jesus speaking to those who are Christians when they did not do the work to elevate themselves to Gnostic Christians.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Gnostic Christians follow the Jesus that frees us from organized religions and puts us where he says we should be. The light of the world and free from corrupted organized religions.

How deep is that corruption? The bible tells us with the quotes above as well as others.

Isaiah 56:11) “They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one” But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, “you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked” (Malachi 3:18)

Regards
DL

But you posted a video showing Christ to be an asshole and quack who ought to be locked away.

So it shows that at least some few Christians know a bit about morality, yet they still follow a genocidal son murdering God while thinking him good.

The most progressive Christian, if he has bought into Jesus as savior and accepts substitutionary atonement as somehow just, shows that he too has a corrupted morality.

Jesus said we should follow his way and pick up our cross/burdens and follow him. Not ride him as our scapegoat.

The way Jesus taught is what Gnostic Christians follow which gives truth to those who say that the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

Here is the way.

youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes … r_embedded

Regards
DL

Yes. A video of the Rome created pacifist wimp who wants to create slaves instead of free thinking people.

Gnostic Christians follow the Jesus that frees us, not the one who would enslave us to immoral ideologies.

If you only see one Jesus archetype in scriptures, you are not looking the right way.

Have a look at the quotes I put above to the Jesus I and Gnostic Christians recognize.

Regards
DL

A no-divorce policy encourages people to think deeply about marriage and their potential partners. Since there is no way out, frivolous, ill-considered marriages are avoided. The marriage that do take place, have a stronger foundation and better prospects for happiness, fulfillment and success.

A no-divorce policy makes couples work out their difficulties rather than abandoning a marriage. That builds individual character and stronger marriage.

A no-divorce policy produces a stable long-term environment for children. A divorce is very traumatic for a child, much more than living within an unhappy marriage.

As for your points …

Abuse is a separate issue that can be handled by other legal means besides divorce.

All sorts of “loving relationships” are restricted for the benefit of society … sexual relations between child and adult, incestuous relationships, adultery, etc. There are rational reasons for these restrictions. The denial of such relationships is not in itself immoral.

When I was 15 I had a crush on my science teacher. She was a lovely blonde woman. And it was immoral of society to restrict my relations with her.
And look at the monster I am now. And also I am nothing more than a thorn of society, I mean look at me. I haven’t had a serious job since yesterday. Probably it was the worst thing society could have done to itself. I literally haven’t the slightest desire to contribute to society unless the said contribution makes me rich.

So the morality of God/Jesus is reduced to speculation of what happens in an afterlife.

I thought the morality which was being discussed consisted of the rules for living as set out by Jesus … help the poor, forgive your brother, keep the commandments … that kind of stuff. :open_mouth:

For sure, but that does not mean that mistakes will not be made and if a mistake is made or the love turn cold, people should be allowed to try to make up for their mistake instead of having to live with a mistake that can be corrected.

Not quite as people change over time and you will not the statistics that say about 40% of all female children get abused by their own fathers. I think that that % includes step fathers, but it does show how having female children changes otherwise possibly good men.

See above and recognize that some foundations are built on sand instead of a solid footing. Life is long and people change.

See above.

A good happy marriage, yes. One where abuse of men, women and children enters a marriage, no.

Not if the child is being abused or when a child has to watch a man or woman abuse their partner.

If that remedy takes, perhaps. If it does not then to not allow a divorce forces people to live in loveless situation.

Like by what, and if the relationship turn to a loveless one, who is society to force misery onto people?

Those restrictions are not working as the stats I put above are fairly accurate. To have a child sit across from her rapist is also a form of mental abuse.

[/quote]
You had better re-write this last as it sounds like you would allow such rape or abuse situations because you do not find them immoral.

Regards
DL

You misunderstood what I wrote, so I will expand on it for you:

  • All sorts of relationships are restricted for the good of society and individuals within the society. Restricting relationships is not in itself immoral.

  • Calling something immoral does not make it immoral. You have to provide reasons why it is immoral.

  • Morality is a set of trade-offs. Every person does not get everything that he/she wants.

You should edit your post because it looks like I wrote the stuff that you actually wrote. Very confusing. But here goes:

Do you have a reference for that statistic or should I take it on faith?

It doesn’t support your arguments in any case. If divorce is allowed, then the divorced mother may remarry another abusive man. The divorced father is free to remarry and abuse another child. Therefore, divorce is not a solution to abuse since the abusers are still “out there”.

The only solution is to jail/punish the abusers.

“People change”. Is that a valid argument in contract law? “I changed my mind so the contract no longer applies.”
I bet it doesn’t work.

Abuse again? Already covered.

Abuse again?

Society isn’t forcing misery onto people. There are plenty of ways to find happiness besides a romantic relationship with a spouse.

Abuse again? Jail the abuser.

But then you’d have to jail the jailer, then jail the jailer who put the jailer in jail, because putting people in jail is abuse, its an infinite cycle.

Can you give a couple of examples of what you mean? Who is enforcing these restrictions would also be required.

True. I usually ass an argument with the criticism.

No they are not. A moral tenet stands on it’s own.

Give an example again here.

Done. Apologies.

Do you have a reference for that statistic or should I take it on faith?
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You should take it by googling for yourself. Too often have I done another’s leg work to have him ignore it because he did not like the source.

Even if wrong, any smaller % would not effect the argument I put.

Yes it does. Again you make statements without arguments.

That is not a reason to force he to stay with the original abuser. She might get lucky the third time.

The divorced father is free to remarry and abuse another child. Therefore, divorce is not a solution to abuse since the abusers are still “out there”.
[/quote]
Yes but eventually he might find a wife with the balls to lay a charge and have the prick jailed.

See above. I did not look down quickly enough.

?? There is nothing in marriage law that says people cannot divorce. Only religious dogma and law is that backwards.

Eh. No fault divorce mean anything to you.

Not well.

We are talking reasons for divorce. Should I ignore the main one?

Only if both parties agree.

[/quote]
When you check the stats on abuse, if you do that is, you will see how many parents talk their children out of laying charges because of what women know the lawyers and courts do to them and their children and their reputations.

I do not see where you have justified denying people a divorce and you seem to not see love as a major component to a married good married life.

Regards
DL

I already did … pedophilia, incest, adultery. Most people agree that restrictions on these “loving relationships” are moral. (They probably agree on restricting at least one if not all three.)

Morality is a set of rules which enable a group of people to live together. That means that people agree to give up some things that they want in order to get something else as compensation. For example, many people would love to get “free stuff” by stealing it, but they understand that a society where theft is allowed would require violent defense of their own stuff. So they agree to give up the “free stuff” in order to get safety and stability.

If you look at any particular tenet, you see compromise … for example, free speech does not permit you to say “hijack” in an airport or to yell “fire” in a theater.

Why would I need to do “leg work” if you already know where the statistic comes from and you can just stick a link on the page??
You’re the one trying to convince me of something by even stating the statistic. If you can’t provide a reference, it makes me think that you could be mistaken about it or you just made it up.

Since you have been wrong about statistics before and since you cannot provide a reference, there is no reason to believe this statistic. I will just ignore it.

Just because you can’t get divorced in a no-divorce society does not mean that you have to live with an abuser … people can separate and live in different areas. That’s the same kind of “solution” as divorce offers. It’s not really a solution at all. It passes the abuser on to someone else. It mirrors the solution that the Roman Catholic Church used when priests molested kids. They moved the priest to another parish. And he would molest kids there again. ← NOT A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM

Marriage is a contract just like a contact to buy a car or condo. “People change” is not a valid reason to break the contract.

I presented a number of arguments which show that marriages would be stronger and stable in a no-divorce society. This would be particularly beneficial for children.

Your main counterargument is centered on a small number of abusive relations. And you don’t show that divorce is an effective solution to abuse.

You know how the song goes : “if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you are with”. :smiley:

The solution to pedophile priests is to either buy him an attractive prostitute or cut off his balls.

Thanks for the chat my friend.

I learned what I wanted to learn in terms of bolstering of negating my position.

Love between people and love of life is what we should all be seeking and you have not given me any reason to change that view in terms of how restricting that search is somehow creating a greater good.

Life is too short to be miserable in a situation that is loveless.

Regards
DL

I’m glad that you learned something.

I’m reminded of the Ashley Madison slogan :

“Life is short. Have an affair.”

:smiley:

I think their mental condition and desires would not be appeased by those.

Like rape, a large part of their mind set is control with the sexual part as a secondary component.

As to castration. That does not effect sexual performance but only inhibits reproduction as far as I know.

Regards
DL