Tax and Healthcare Plan

Ad hom. I wont report, but please refrain from this respectless behaviour and provide some rational argument, or at least the semblance of making an attempt at one.

Our group has been studying Marx and Hegel for years now.
Have you read Hegel? If you havent, you have no chance in hell of understanding Marx.

Yes, but what happens to this money?
I am arguing that it is beneficial for the whole of the economy to let some value trickle down to people that aren’t necessarily as savvy in the most competitive terms of finance. I think this can only un-stress the economy and produce more effective surplus.
Right now all the surplus is being bottled up.

Also, note that my proposed rate of 20 percent corporate tax is far lower than it has been for a century.

This is why I am against taxing humans.
If we need any form of public government at all, that means well have to tax corporations instead. that may go not their prices, but humans will be free to decide to pay those prices, where they are unfree to decide if they want to pay taxes.

Yes, Ive done the numbers too. This is why I propose free food and shelter - and basic healthcare instead.
You know my position on modern diseases - I am not going to go into that in public, ever - but I know for a fact that we can do with a thousandth of the current spending and get infinitely better results and much longer lifespans, incomparably better quality of life -
all the current healthcare industry does is kill people as slowly as possible so that they can pay for their own killing for as long as possible, and get as much of their offspring as deep in debt as possible.

So again, abolish all healthcare tax and insurance, and just provide free emergency room and periodic doctor checkups through taxing the largest profits.
This will simply, directly and effectively turn into power to work, buy and consume, thus in turn increasing the profits again.

A 20 percent flat tax on non-human entities making monetary profit is a reduction of several orders of total taxation.

Yes it is a joke, a terminally sick joke. It will end - and we will end up with the basic given that health is its own ground.

I like your idea of taxing corporations and stop taxing individuals. This is interesting, I will think more about it.

It occurs to me that it would entirely justify the Corporation as an entity - it exists so that humans don’t have to pay taxes.
Lol.

Thats very cool.

K: urgod is clearly clueless about Marx… to correct all his mistakes would take
all my time, time I don’t feel like wasting time on someone who is so clueless…
…now feel free to Report me…what are we, 12 again?

I have been studying Marx for a long time and I have done a study of Hegel,
abet a long time ago… I shall be returning to Hegel when I get there
during my study of western philosophy, right now I am at the Hobbes, Locke,
Descartes, Leibniz group of philosophers… I maybe getting to Hegel in 6 months
to a year…

Kropotkin

I am sad to see you don’t find this thread worthy of your philosophical thoughts, but only of insults.
I know UrGod knows Marx well, as Ive studied Marx together with him at least since late 2014, and we’ve each studied him separately before that.

Heres a book containing some basic ideas about how Marx can be interpreted in light of reality rather than of ideal.

lulu.com/shop/jakob-milikows … 74101.html

[quote=“UrGod”]
Marx got profit backwards, profit is not theft of surplus value from workers by owners, profit is the giving of surplus value by both owners and workers. Profit is literally the creation of value, and money symbolizes this. More money is created when values are created, this is why the monetary supply gradually increases over time, because there are always more values coming into existence.

K: ok, I shall begin with this one paragraph… marx was correct that profit is the theft
of surplus value… it is not the “GIVING” of surplus value by both the owners and workers…
giving implies consent and there is no consent given from workers…
if you make $5 dollars and hour and you creates say, $10 dollars every hour…
thus your work creates 5 dollars of profit every hour…

I am a checker in a supermarket and I get paid a far bit, over $20 bucks a hour…
to justify my existence, I must create more than $22 bucks worth of profit…
and in fact, I must create quite a bit more… as my work creates the profit that
a company must survive on…and I have no choice in the matter…

“profit is the creation of value”… this is a misunderstanding of
both profit and values…

the dictionary on Value: 1. the value of a thing in money or goods. 2. estimated worth…
3.

dang, the wife needs something… I will be back…

Kropotkin

You’re right, very cool indeed.

Excellent, thanks for going through the trouble.

There is no consent when it concerns slaves, but Marx was talking about workers that come to work voluntarily.
Yes, in need of money, but they choose that job precisely because it gives them some money (some freedom, some power) in return for their labor.

If Marx had been talking about forced slavery, chain gangs, or prison labourers, he would have had a point.

Except finding another job. Which is what a slave isn’t allowed to do.
Marx turned the free proletariat into an order of self-proclaimed slaves.
But they still have Habeas Corpus - so do you - so there is no justification in saying you have no choice in the matter.
It is you who shows up at work. The police won’t come get you if you don’t.

The value of profit can certainly be calculated in money, and also quite easily in goods.

Those like PK want to believe in their forced slavery to their jobs, most likely because they feel so disappointed in how their lives have turned out. They hate their jobs and feel like failures, which allows them to value the claim that they are merely slaves with no choice in the matter.

Yeah, PK if you don’t like your job then go get another one, fucker.

Equating profit to theft is a bit demonic. Theft implies a taking from one who possesses without permission. Corporate profit has nothing to do with that, although various religious actions are certainly that way. I suspect Marx was referring more to his religion, acknowledging that theft of profit is merely how the world works and is thus not evil (“anything that works”, aka “immoral”).

Where workers for a company or corporation sell their services (even though mostly extorted) at a set price, profit is formed by converting those services into higher sellable value (not necessarily human value, merely sellable to the ignorant), “a marketable product”. There is no theft from the workers in that scenario, despite other disagreeable interactions involved.

But healthcare is nothing more than the classic protectionism racket (as is most of modern day governing) - obfuscation [misdirection] and extortion.

Each individual is responsible for his/her own health. That’s it. Thus, “free market”. Economy 101. Capitalism, bitches. Ima let you do you, and I’ll do me.

Making insurance for medical care is insanity. At least when making this the basis for a society-wide system. Maybe for the marginals who have literally no money, 'cause they don’t make any value. I am ok with some subsidized system for such. I agree with Fixed that such a (minimum) system tax-funded from corporate taxes could elevate the society-wide valuing space, but that is the limit. Healthcare is not a “right”, it is a personal responsibility. And a personal cost, if you are stupid enough to neglect it.

Don’t make me pay for your fucking chemo, you fat macdonald eating whores.

More people who smoke cigarettes need chemo than burger eaters.

Then the same applies. They can pay for it themselves, if needed.

Of course a lot of people are born to idiots and get fed on all the worst over saturated meats and sugars and syrups.
One of my biggest issues is the copious amount of types of murder being sold, literally, as healthcare.

Since morons who buy into this murder-market and then refuse to blame themselves when their loved one whom they sold to the murder market dies, will always respond with murderous hatred to pointers about what they might have estimated erroneously, I steer clear of truly giving out my thoughts on this. Fuck everyone who buys into the cancer-industry. Peons of death, ew.

Are being told they need chemo.

No one “needs” chemo. Unless they need their immune system destroyed.
People are free to keep dying of cancer and chemo as long as they like, or feel they must. But it is thoroughly unsound to give ones body away like this, so let them please do it with some modesty and in private.

They can just die in their chosen cancer institution and let their place be filled by an immigrant from a more vital gene pool.

Fuck I hate this subject.
Why don’t people take care of themselves. Why all this trust in lab coats?
Ew ew ew.

The lab coats are the ones poisoning the basics…air, food, water. When everything important is compromised (clean air, water, and food), how are simple folks to truly take care of themselves?

Marx effectively created a religion but one without god, and only a Devil.
The Worker takes the place of god, without, unfortunately, having any such powers. So he just becomes extremely indignant. I should I should I should own the world.
The Worker is supposed to have divine prerogative, and the Owners is composed entirely of satanic sin.
You can see how things went quite wrong on that account.

Indeed. There is perhaps exploitation but as long she worker is free to remain in bed and not get paid, there is no question of theft.

Rather than Marxism, which is the deification of the discontent of the worker, what is sane, is the Union. A principle dating from well before Marx was born, but which was legalized during the proliferation of Communism. The Union is, exactly unlike Marxism, a Capitalistic system - it is in a sense cartel-forming on the side of workers. It allows them to sell their labor at a higher price, at a price that is more accurately reflective of the worth that they bring to the finalized product.

A means to make people more dependent on all levels - the cancer industry (“health-care-system”) physically and financially completely own the former human beings that have bought into it.

Hard fucking work, and never, ever believing a single lab coats or journalists word.
It is wise to always consider the exact opposite of what a lab coat or journalists tells you.

The sad truth is that “simple folk” are the idiots that most glad-handedly pay the cancer industry their childrens tuition, and have made it as big as it is.

There is nothing specifically good about “simple folks”. They tend to be the ones that believe in god and government, and lynch people that tell them they are responsible for themselves.

I wish it woud help to be compassionate - but to offer non-institutional ideas to people with sick relatives always results in getting scorned. Its a very scary sort of scam our society has caught itself up in. I realized this after my cousin became very angry at a story I told about Wilhelm Reich, just the notion of there being an alternative to a race to the faster decay between body and disease, and then I tied this to how Reich came to his end. Brr.