Yeah, the Vatican - the source of Catholic dogma.
Catholicism - the largest Christian sect, consisting of half of all Christians.
That’s not what the Catholic Church says. It’s there in the Catechism :
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a … p1s1c1.htm
Jesus took them out of hell. I already explained that.
My question was on justice of one issue. I do not plan to jook at all the supernatural foolishness withing the Christian doctrine.
Do you think their punishment was justified in the first place?
Regards
DL
God told them not to eat that fucking fruit. They disobeyed and they got punished. Actions have consequences. End of lesson.
It’s a creation story. I don’t obsess over it.
If you’re going to discuss it then at least use correct Christian dogma.
So you think a child disobeying and eating a fruit deserves death and hell for it.
Wow.
Are you a parent?
I am not obsessed with this story but do you not recognize that the Eden story has been used to discriminate against women without a just cause from it’s inception?
Regards
DL
LOL.
Adam lived to age 930. Eve’s age at death is unknown.
Now, Adam and Eve have eternal life in heaven.
What’s the problem?
Shifting the goalposts?
930 years to fools, as compared to what if God had not murdered them by locking away the tree of life?
Regards
DL
Ah, the first example of entitlement. 
Adam and Eve did not seem to have that attitude but you appear to think that they should have.
I doubt Christian dogma says they were murdered, since murder is wrongful killing and dogmatic Christians tend to NOT view God as doing things that are wrong.
It’s a little unclear what is meant by the tree of good and evil, since when those two categories were presented in a phrase back then it was a trope meaning everything.
I am not a big punishment advocate, but I suppose I can imagine scenarios where I would be angry at my children for finding out things I told them not to - perhaps around privacy issues or if the information was too adult for them (violent, say, especially combining sex and violence) or had to do with things I thought they were not ready to handle or I wanted to have a careful stepwise introduction of the knowledge or consult with my wife first. Given that the knowledge made them ashamed, I suppose their might be exposure to things that could be called knowledge I would want my children to stay away from - anything that made my children feel ashamed of themselves or their bodies - perhaps because they did not have the tools to interpret and place in context whatever this information was - I would not want them to come into contact without some parental guidance. And since I had told them not to - go online to specific websites or whatever - sure, I might do something punitive, especially if it was part of a pattern of not listening to me or us.
I find the whole Eden story quite open ended in terms of interpretation. Fundamentalist Christian interpretations are often pretty offensive. What the actual story is trying to get across, I don’t know and scholars seem to have different opinions. I feel a giant shrug.
Many do just end in shrugging their shoulders and ignoring the story.
many do not want to recognize how this myth has been used by Christianity to enhance and advance their ability to apply and teach their homophobic and misogynous policies.
For evil to grow, all good people need do is not call B.S. on Christianity’s interpretation.
Regards
DL
I haven’t ignored the story. Nor do I ignore the ways the story is used - obviously, given what I wrote.
I am not sure how the Garden of Eden myth is used homophobically, but I suppose creative homophobes may manage somehow. And yes, the story is used to support hatred of women. But you were focused on a theological issue around punishment for going against God’s order and God punishing because of this. You put this in the context of parents and children. I shrug in relation to that issue and to the story itself, given what I wrote and that the story is not clear.
Sure, I’ve done that in other contexts. Here I answered the question you asked, and you ignore that answer.
I’ll add here, that going directly at the GofE story seems like a really poor tactic. First, attack the mysogeny, for example, then if the G&E story is raised to justify it, show 1) how the story was originally interpreted in Judaism 2) show the wide variety of interpretations in Christianity 3) challenge the logic of punishing current humans for what Adam and Eve did back then 4) point out that even in the Bible it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only ancestors of humans, so the story must be symbolic and the symbols can be interpreted in a variety of ways 5) get them to name the authority they base their interpretation on - and it will have to be a human- and ask if that human might be fallible.
Of course this will likely not change many minds either- though perhaps a few more than yours - but your approach which starts with the story seems like a weak approach and is itself confused, in part because what you focus on is not necessarily silly but further is not the real weak area of what some Christians do with the Gof E story. I still have a shrug about that.
And the ‘for evil to grow’ statement makes it seems like if one does not take the tactical and hermeneutic position you do one is contributing to the growth of evil’ How propagandistic, how simplifying of a complicated situation with many many different possible good approaches and how hysterical.
I haven’t read every word in the Bible, but I’ve never heard of this before. I thought Adam and Eve were the theological beginning from which all men sprung (not the evolutionary well though). Who were the other ancestors?
Karpel Tunnel
I can and do readily admit that my style, delivery, etiquette, grammar etc. etc. is not the best. Self education will do that.
If you are volunteering to prof read and ghost write to add eloquence to my self taught and not formally uneducated grammatical and writings, I am all in for that.
Being French, I need all the help in English I can get, given that it is not nearly as good of a communication language as French.
If not volunteering, then you will have to accept that my style, is what it is. 
Regards
DL
You are correct.
Christianity cannot assign their phony Original Sin without an original sinner.
Regards
DL
I don’t know, but their children get wives. Where did they come from? And I believe Adam and Eve only had sons, so…
heaven represents total pleasure hell represents abscence of pleasure.
if you obey the rules you are promised with heaven. if you disobey the rules you are promised with hell.
this is viewed as moral in the sense that we derive our morals from pleasure and pain. And in this self-referntial context, disobedience would cause pain to self, therefore disobedience in of itself is immoral.
This circular reasoning causes Christians to dogmatically obey.
Indeed.
While Christians ignore that purposeless torture in hell would only be practiced by an insane God.
Only morally corrupted Christians and Muslims will follow such a vile God.
Regards
DL
I wonder how that Story would have been written if it had been told/written after we attained to all of the knowledge about evolution, science, ad continuum ~~ ALL OF IT?
Perhaps it would have not been told at all.
It is just myth, human infallible men trying to make sense of things as they were back then. Perhaps they did the best job they could with what they had to work with.
You might as well discuss Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf.
??
Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf created a religion that has victimized so many women and gays with a homophobic and misogynous ways?
Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf use Inquisitions and Jihads against humanity?
For evil to grow, all good people need to is ignore the evils of religions and see those vile and damaging stories as just a version of Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf.
Do you really see a moral equivalence in the two myths?
Regards
DL
Karpel Tunnel,
What do you see as the real weak area?