I read Jesus differently and see him preaching against religious tradition.
I E. When he said that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath. Man was to rule over god just as the Karaite Jews always did. I extrapolate from that that he would also say that gods are created for man and not man for gods.
I did not say that Jesus judged god. I am sasking you what you think Jesus’ judgement of Yahweh would be.
I don’t know Felix
I think that there is more than one “Felix”, more than one “Omar” because we leave only impressions, not our essences in our personal encounters. Thus every writer encounters Jesus for the first time. The Gospels, separated by time, place and even language, HAD TO present different versions of Jesus. The only reason that there were agreements was due to the existence of a written account of all his deeds, which they fleshed out for their communities.
More importantly though is the existence of various Christianities, some which remain in the Biblical narratives.
The important thing is what about Heaven? Because if there is a Heaven/Hell realities, eternal (unlike the current life), then EVERYTHING that has and can happen takes on a different meaning. For example, the flood. If there is no life after death then it was the permanent extinguishing of millions. If there is an after life then there were millions added either to heaven of hell, given their proper judgment, thus just placement. A Judge is not regarded as a criminal.
You may be right. But first, why do you think Marcion was a gnostic? What is gnosticism? What is the immoral creed? Or shall we agree that these are digressions which will take us too far afield from the OP thesis?
Whether unconditional love is “true” or not, it’s what Jesus is said to have taught in the Sermon on the Mount and contradicted in other places. And, I thought that the Jesus of the Bible, is what we were talking about.
However, I think there is plenty of evidence that unconditional love exists. Haven’t you ever read about a mom who loves her axe-murderer son? Parents not infrequently can’t stop loving their unworthy children and vice versa, children their unworthy parents. Love isn’t rational in a narrow sense.
OK, so we agree there are different characterizations of Jesus in the New Testament [NT]. There are even disagreements about his deeds. The point is, that presents problems when we go to try and figure out if Jesus would condemn or condone Yahweh actions in the OT.
The heaven and hell question is a good one. Of course, that’s a NT conception. The “Old Testament” that the church appropriated from the Jews doesn’t depict heaven or hell that way. Personally, I don’t think the idea of eternal punishment is moral. It’s a disproportional to the crimes even of a mass murderer like Hitler. And without the possibility of repentance and rehabilitation it serves no purpose. It seems to be the projection of powerless people onto God that makes Him look like a person who is spiteful because He is unable to create an absolutely good universe. So, the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount wouldn’t condone the teaching of the Jesus who preached eternal judgment.
Jesus was a Prophet and Messenger of God so there should be no ambiguity in relation to Gods message
But there is as the various incarnations of the Bible were all written by different men at different times
Was it the actual word of God that had been written or dictated by him there would only be one version
There’s plenty of ambiguity about who Jesus was and what was his message. The Bible is a complex book with a complex history. There are various faith positions that people take on it. It seems to me you might have one of those.
I am an atheist with no particular faith position to declare so am merely pointing out the
various inconsistencies that exist both within individual Bibles and all the Bibles together
Then I wonder why you declared that Jesus was a prophet and messenger of God rather than stating that he thought he was a prophet and messenger of a god who doesn’t exist.
Jesus was not the Son of God for that was a title given to him by Christians
A Prophet or Messenger is only human and so cannot attain God like status
Making Jesus God violates the First Commandment which forbids idolatry