Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against

That’s true. If you read different journalists to-day there appears we have seven different president Trumps.

You may be right. But first, why do you think Marcion was a gnostic? What is gnosticism? What is the immoral creed? Or shall we agree that these are digressions which will take us too far afield from the OP thesis?

Whether unconditional love is “true” or not, it’s what Jesus is said to have taught in the Sermon on the Mount and contradicted in other places. And, I thought that the Jesus of the Bible, is what we were talking about.

However, I think there is plenty of evidence that unconditional love exists. Haven’t you ever read about a mom who loves her axe-murderer son? Parents not infrequently can’t stop loving their unworthy children and vice versa, children their unworthy parents. Love isn’t rational in a narrow sense.

OK, so we agree there are different characterizations of Jesus in the New Testament [NT]. There are even disagreements about his deeds. The point is, that presents problems when we go to try and figure out if Jesus would condemn or condone Yahweh actions in the OT.

The heaven and hell question is a good one. Of course, that’s a NT conception. The “Old Testament” that the church appropriated from the Jews doesn’t depict heaven or hell that way. Personally, I don’t think the idea of eternal punishment is moral. It’s a disproportional to the crimes even of a mass murderer like Hitler. And without the possibility of repentance and rehabilitation it serves no purpose. It seems to be the projection of powerless people onto God that makes Him look like a person who is spiteful because He is unable to create an absolutely good universe. So, the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount wouldn’t condone the teaching of the Jesus who preached eternal judgment.

Jesus was a Prophet and Messenger of God so there should be no ambiguity in relation to Gods message
But there is as the various incarnations of the Bible were all written by different men at different times
Was it the actual word of God that had been written or dictated by him there would only be one version

There’s plenty of ambiguity about who Jesus was and what was his message. The Bible is a complex book with a complex history. There are various faith positions that people take on it. It seems to me you might have one of those.

I am an atheist with no particular faith position to declare so am merely pointing out the
various inconsistencies that exist both within individual Bibles and all the Bibles together

Jesus forgives criminals so he won’t judge God.

Then I wonder why you declared that Jesus was a prophet and messenger of God rather than stating that he thought he was a prophet and messenger of a god who doesn’t exist.

Because I am simply following the narrative as it is written
I am interested in its logical consistency not its truth value

Then why did you cherry-pick the titles prophet and messenger when the narrative also famously claims that Jesus was Christ and the Son of God?

Jesus was not the Son of God for that was a title given to him by Christians
A Prophet or Messenger is only human and so cannot attain God like status
Making Jesus God violates the First Commandment which forbids idolatry

Based on which theology?

It doesn’t violate the first commandment if Jesus is just an avatar of the one and only God.

I can be brief and this is not too far off the moral part of the topic.

Marcion disagreed with the orthodoxy and that might be enough to have me see him as a Gnostic as it shows he is a free thinker. Gnostic Christianity has evolved over time and it would be best to discuss his position on thing and compare them to modern Gnostic Christian thinking though as Christianity won the god wars and muddied the waters in terms of what we actually believed. Like the lies that we do not venerate matter and think the world corrupted.

Gnosticism, defined in short form, is a creed of esoteric ecumenists and naturalists who recognize that all gods are man made and we just openly admit it and if we are all to make up our own gods then why not take the label of god, which we do, by naming god I am and actually meaning ourselves. Knowledge and honesty is paramount to us and that is what frustrates some as we will only speak to what we know or can be known, which excludes anything supernatural.

If Jesus had unconditional love for all, he sure did not show it to the merchants who had the temples permission to be where they were when Jesus chased them away from the temple.

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Unconditional love would be epitome of love. Love of the highest form. I think.

Ask those mothers if their love would grow for their children if their children had not been axe murderers or otherwise unworthy.

If they say yes, which I think they would, then they have conditions to the degree of love they have even for their children.
That fact negates unconditional love of the highest degree.

Regards
DL

I agree, but knowing what the bibles says of these two, to me, fictional characters, would Jesus condone what Yahweh purportedly does in the bible?

Mine is a moral question that seeks to ignore reality questions. Analysing the myth and morals people get from it is my goal here.

Regards
DL

So you are saying that Jesus judges humans yet will not judge god.

Why not?

Do you see Jesus forming an immoral double standard of morality the way Christians do to forgive god for things he would condemn in men?

Here is an example of that and that propensity, that you sort of indicate Jesus has, is immoral.

youtube.com/watch?v=6mJCCARjyNM

Regards
DL

I had to chuckle at your “logical consistency”.

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Logic is a part of reason and sense.

Regards
DL

Jesus was a Prophet and Messenger not an avatar of God

God expects unconditional worship from all his followers
Worship of anything or anyone else is expressly forbidden

The First Commandment is the greatest Commandment of them all
And a Prophet or Messenger cannot be anything else because of this

Both the Jews and the Christians worshipped or continue to worship false gods
The Jews worshipped the golden calf and the Christians worship Jesus and Mary
Christians believe in the Holy Trinity which violates the First Commandment too

In Islam however there is only one God and no one else is equal to him and this is acknowledged by all Muslims
There is no Trinity and Jesus is only a Prophet and Messenger and Mary is only his mother and neither is Divine

The worship of Jesus and Mary that occurs in Christianity and the worship of the golden calf that occurred in Judaism is expressly forbidden in Islam

So is equality of the sexes which shows just how corrupt an ideology Islam is, as it goes directly against it’s own reciprocity rule.

I have seen where Allah says not to put a partner with him but I have not seen where he forbids putting someone above him.

Do you gave a quote that does?

Regards
DL

This is your interpretation of Christianity.

You completely ignore what Christians say about the nature of Jesus within the Trinity.

My interpretation of Christianity is based upon the Commandments which God gave to Moses
What Christians say about the Trinity is irrelevant because Jesus can not be the equal of God

It makes no sense at all to elevate him from Prophet and Messenger to the equal of God
None of the other Prophets or Messengers were elevated so neither should he have been