Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against

Then why did you cherry-pick the titles prophet and messenger when the narrative also famously claims that Jesus was Christ and the Son of God?

Jesus was not the Son of God for that was a title given to him by Christians
A Prophet or Messenger is only human and so cannot attain God like status
Making Jesus God violates the First Commandment which forbids idolatry

Based on which theology?

It doesn’t violate the first commandment if Jesus is just an avatar of the one and only God.

I can be brief and this is not too far off the moral part of the topic.

Marcion disagreed with the orthodoxy and that might be enough to have me see him as a Gnostic as it shows he is a free thinker. Gnostic Christianity has evolved over time and it would be best to discuss his position on thing and compare them to modern Gnostic Christian thinking though as Christianity won the god wars and muddied the waters in terms of what we actually believed. Like the lies that we do not venerate matter and think the world corrupted.

Gnosticism, defined in short form, is a creed of esoteric ecumenists and naturalists who recognize that all gods are man made and we just openly admit it and if we are all to make up our own gods then why not take the label of god, which we do, by naming god I am and actually meaning ourselves. Knowledge and honesty is paramount to us and that is what frustrates some as we will only speak to what we know or can be known, which excludes anything supernatural.

If Jesus had unconditional love for all, he sure did not show it to the merchants who had the temples permission to be where they were when Jesus chased them away from the temple.

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Unconditional love would be epitome of love. Love of the highest form. I think.

Ask those mothers if their love would grow for their children if their children had not been axe murderers or otherwise unworthy.

If they say yes, which I think they would, then they have conditions to the degree of love they have even for their children.
That fact negates unconditional love of the highest degree.

Regards
DL

I agree, but knowing what the bibles says of these two, to me, fictional characters, would Jesus condone what Yahweh purportedly does in the bible?

Mine is a moral question that seeks to ignore reality questions. Analysing the myth and morals people get from it is my goal here.

Regards
DL

So you are saying that Jesus judges humans yet will not judge god.

Why not?

Do you see Jesus forming an immoral double standard of morality the way Christians do to forgive god for things he would condemn in men?

Here is an example of that and that propensity, that you sort of indicate Jesus has, is immoral.

youtube.com/watch?v=6mJCCARjyNM

Regards
DL

I had to chuckle at your “logical consistency”.

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Logic is a part of reason and sense.

Regards
DL

Jesus was a Prophet and Messenger not an avatar of God

God expects unconditional worship from all his followers
Worship of anything or anyone else is expressly forbidden

The First Commandment is the greatest Commandment of them all
And a Prophet or Messenger cannot be anything else because of this

Both the Jews and the Christians worshipped or continue to worship false gods
The Jews worshipped the golden calf and the Christians worship Jesus and Mary
Christians believe in the Holy Trinity which violates the First Commandment too

In Islam however there is only one God and no one else is equal to him and this is acknowledged by all Muslims
There is no Trinity and Jesus is only a Prophet and Messenger and Mary is only his mother and neither is Divine

The worship of Jesus and Mary that occurs in Christianity and the worship of the golden calf that occurred in Judaism is expressly forbidden in Islam

So is equality of the sexes which shows just how corrupt an ideology Islam is, as it goes directly against it’s own reciprocity rule.

I have seen where Allah says not to put a partner with him but I have not seen where he forbids putting someone above him.

Do you gave a quote that does?

Regards
DL

This is your interpretation of Christianity.

You completely ignore what Christians say about the nature of Jesus within the Trinity.

My interpretation of Christianity is based upon the Commandments which God gave to Moses
What Christians say about the Trinity is irrelevant because Jesus can not be the equal of God

It makes no sense at all to elevate him from Prophet and Messenger to the equal of God
None of the other Prophets or Messengers were elevated so neither should he have been

The First Pillar Of Islam references that Allah is the one and only true God so there can be no one above him
The notion of God having a partner is not acceptable in Islam for there is none who is actually equal to Allah

Islam completely rejects such a notion which is why it rejects Trinitarianism which also references equality with God
As a philosophical concept it makes no sense at all for it is impossible for God to be dead and alive at the same time

Even he cannot violate the Law Of Non Contradiction

"Surreptitious75–You claim to be an atheist yet your point of view on these issues seems to be Islamic. What’s up with that?

The Jesus character in the bible is most certainly the antithesis of the Father character while the Holy Spirit character is rarely, if ever, personified (certainly not in the greek).

Those I’ve challenged in the past have simply dismissed the murders of the Father on the basis of his never committing sin, but Jesus had likewise never committed sin yet he said to turn the other cheek and the meek shall inherit the earth, so if Jesus’ words are true, the tyrannical Father will NOT be inheriting the earth, though he might destroy it since he appears to have a healthy appetite for destruction if the bible is any sort of guide on the matter.

Right, Jesus is A son of god and not THE son of god. The A has been perverted into THE for reasons I’m not quite clear on. The greek language doesn’t suggest that.

Good stuff! The deification of ignorance.

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

:open_mouth:

Jews and Christians had corrupted the teachings of God so he had the Koran dictated to Mohammad by the angel Gabriel for future believers
I do not believe in God but if he does exist I will be shown no mercy on the Day Of Judgement and thrown into Hell with all the other infidels

I think religion is man made however and was created by him to overcome his irrational fear of death
I have no such fear and have no need for any God and will be quite happy to go when my time comes

I have no problem spending the rest of eternity in a state free from all suffering forever more
I was actually in that state of perfect non existence before my parents decided to create me

But when I return there I will never be interrupted again

Scholars disagree about whether or not Marcion was a Gnostic. Wiki says the following:

I already stated that Jesus seems to contradict the sermon on the mount elsewhere in the texts. Your example may be an instance of that.

To be unconditional, is to impose no conditions, qualifications, stipulations. To be of the highest form might be something else. I don’t see why love couldn’t be granted unconditionally and yet still have the capacity to greater or lesser. So, imagine a woman who loves her abusive husband but realizes that if she stayed with him he would kill her. So she leaves him but still has feelings of love for him. Such love as she has for him is unconditional love. Is it the highest love? I don’t know. How does one determine that?

If that is true then you aren’t here now. What happens once in eternity, never happens.