Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against

So is equality of the sexes which shows just how corrupt an ideology Islam is, as it goes directly against it’s own reciprocity rule.

I have seen where Allah says not to put a partner with him but I have not seen where he forbids putting someone above him.

Do you gave a quote that does?

Regards
DL

This is your interpretation of Christianity.

You completely ignore what Christians say about the nature of Jesus within the Trinity.

My interpretation of Christianity is based upon the Commandments which God gave to Moses
What Christians say about the Trinity is irrelevant because Jesus can not be the equal of God

It makes no sense at all to elevate him from Prophet and Messenger to the equal of God
None of the other Prophets or Messengers were elevated so neither should he have been

The First Pillar Of Islam references that Allah is the one and only true God so there can be no one above him
The notion of God having a partner is not acceptable in Islam for there is none who is actually equal to Allah

Islam completely rejects such a notion which is why it rejects Trinitarianism which also references equality with God
As a philosophical concept it makes no sense at all for it is impossible for God to be dead and alive at the same time

Even he cannot violate the Law Of Non Contradiction

"Surreptitious75–You claim to be an atheist yet your point of view on these issues seems to be Islamic. What’s up with that?

The Jesus character in the bible is most certainly the antithesis of the Father character while the Holy Spirit character is rarely, if ever, personified (certainly not in the greek).

Those I’ve challenged in the past have simply dismissed the murders of the Father on the basis of his never committing sin, but Jesus had likewise never committed sin yet he said to turn the other cheek and the meek shall inherit the earth, so if Jesus’ words are true, the tyrannical Father will NOT be inheriting the earth, though he might destroy it since he appears to have a healthy appetite for destruction if the bible is any sort of guide on the matter.

Right, Jesus is A son of god and not THE son of god. The A has been perverted into THE for reasons I’m not quite clear on. The greek language doesn’t suggest that.

Good stuff! The deification of ignorance.

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

:open_mouth:

Jews and Christians had corrupted the teachings of God so he had the Koran dictated to Mohammad by the angel Gabriel for future believers
I do not believe in God but if he does exist I will be shown no mercy on the Day Of Judgement and thrown into Hell with all the other infidels

I think religion is man made however and was created by him to overcome his irrational fear of death
I have no such fear and have no need for any God and will be quite happy to go when my time comes

I have no problem spending the rest of eternity in a state free from all suffering forever more
I was actually in that state of perfect non existence before my parents decided to create me

But when I return there I will never be interrupted again

Scholars disagree about whether or not Marcion was a Gnostic. Wiki says the following:

I already stated that Jesus seems to contradict the sermon on the mount elsewhere in the texts. Your example may be an instance of that.

To be unconditional, is to impose no conditions, qualifications, stipulations. To be of the highest form might be something else. I don’t see why love couldn’t be granted unconditionally and yet still have the capacity to greater or lesser. So, imagine a woman who loves her abusive husband but realizes that if she stayed with him he would kill her. So she leaves him but still has feelings of love for him. Such love as she has for him is unconditional love. Is it the highest love? I don’t know. How does one determine that?

If that is true then you aren’t here now. What happens once in eternity, never happens.

Luther was one sick dude.

:confused:

Just great.

Hello Felix

I don’t think he would, but, as a jew, his approach to his father was much more like Job than like our critics. When he was praying to his Father, Yahweh, it was clear that his resolve was faltering and that he would’ve rather the Father effect his solution in some other way that in the brutalization of the Son, and yet Jesus ultimately resigns to His will, whatever reservations or criticism he might have had. The story of Job also shows a critical believer, who obviously was far from approving of Yahweh’s treatment of him, a faithful servant, nevertheless submitting to His will.
Now, before one goes on, it is important to acknowledge that there are differences between the Barbaric Yahweh, the Loving Jesus, and the philosophical God of John’s gospel. These differences lead one to doubt the claim that the Bible is a work inspired by God but instead informed by the culture of the time which surrounds it. You look at the history of the Catholic Church and we see even today pagan beliefs rolled in as Christian beliefs, simply because they were part of the culture that was absorbed into the Church. Same goes for the amplified role for Satan and the views about the afterlife, from something denied, to something they embraced.
This cultural influence has always required an explanation from the believer, hence the title of the original post. But, in my opinion, the answer is not in the facts but in the person. Would Jesus condemn Yahweh? Doubt it. Yahweh’s barbarity was not a long forgotten memory but something lived. Jesus was a jew, not a Christian. He celebrated passover, the remembrance of the death of an innocent child for the sins of his father, who may very well have been destined. Some of this jewish culture still produced ideas that only Yahweh could carry out, as in Paul’s Potter. actions beyond explanation. Barbaric, cruel. Love is talked about by Paul in such a way, but away from the jewish sources. When dealing with certain passages, Paul has to deal with Yahweh head on and the look is not good. But condemn Yahweh? Farthest thing from their minds.

Again, I think that we are judging ancient conceptions we no longer understands. The effects of philosophy changed what humans needed their gods to be, but Hell, Day of Judgment, Lake of Fire…these ideas precede Christianity, just as the idea of an All-Father that can intercede in our stead. We, as a species, seem to be ok with immense suffering, as long as there is a way for us to avoid it.

There is much to what you say, Omar, but the criticism of Yahweh isn’t merely the result of modern historical distance. We have Marcion of Sinope for one who was obviously a critic of Yahweh as the demiurge way back in the second century. Marcion was certainly innovative and the first to compile a NT canon. What Marcion, the so-called Gnostics and some of the early so-called church fathers seemed to be doing was applying Greek philosophy to their analysis of the Hebrew Bible and the kerygma.

The remarkable thing about Jesus’ view in some places is his faith in an all good God given the adverse circumstances in first century Palestine. If God is all good then how does one account for the evil state of the world? Thus, the necessity of an almost equally powerful evil deity, Satan the devil. This dualism you don’t see in the Hebrew Bible aka the Old Testament where the true God’s sovereignty over all isn’t seriously challenged. There Satan is an angelic messenger of God and while people may go astray to worship foreign gods, such are no true rivals to the All-Mighty in the narrative cosmologies of the authors.

Many modern NT scholars don’t believe Jesus or his followers anticipated his crucifixion. There was no expectation of a crucified messiah in the first century. Jesus and his disciples had expected that with divine intervention from above he would become the reigning king of Israel. Obviously that didn’t happen. Christianity, the spiritualization of Jesus as the Christ of Faith, was the creative response to the trauma of the crucifixion of the founder.

Hello Felix da Kat. It is good to read such an informed talk on Jesus. I was wondering if this means you reject the drama from “father let this cup pass me by!” which has captivated me always. Because I have religion and wonder how it would feel if I Odin would abandon me. I always admired Jesus for going through with his ordeal even though he knew it and didn’t like it.

I guess what I am secretly saying is, Jesus is greater when he knew the future. If he is only a rebel who was martyred then the whole deal of Christianity doesn’t seem so magical and holy.

Still though even if Jesus himself didn’t know he was gonna get nailed to a cross, the early Christians did know that and still didn’t renounce their faith. Thus did they follow an example Jesus didn’t even really set? If so they were braver than Jesus. Even braver. Pretty strong dudes. And dudettes.

I agree with that last.

If the notion of God having a partner is not acceptable because of equality then how is it that Muslim men partner with women who are a measure below men?

I would have thought that Muslims would live by the same or as close to the standards of Allah, which means that you would have to scrap the notion that your women are inferior to you just because they are women.

Regards
DL

Yet Allah and Yahweh are the same god to Islam. Or are you denying this.

Regards
DL

All kind of weird eh?

Regards
DL

I would guess by calling unconditional love the epitome of love and comparing that highest degree to whatever degree is being shown.

Some might say of your example that if she loved that fool unconditionally, her of fear of death would not drive her away.

That love she is sharing cannot be unconditional or even true love because true love requires reciprocity and good works and deeds. Obviously the good works and deeds are negated by his threats to kill his wife.

I would not say that she in unconditionally in love. I would say she is insane to stay with the prick.

Regards
DL