IMHO, the thread still lacks a credible definition of hate as applied to Adam’s and Eve’s awakening into consequences of behavior.
That is not what the story says. It says they could not because they lacked the knowledge of anything that had good or evil applications. That would include procreation and sexual matters.
You are putting the cart before the horse.
One cannot know what to order when there is no menu known.
Regards
DL
IMHO, the thread still lacks a credible definition of hate as applied to Adam’s and Eve’s awakening into consequences of behavior.
If I have to define well defined words from a dictionary then you show you cannot use a dictionary.
Regards
DL
That is not what the story says. It says they could not because they lacked the knowledge of anything that had good or evil applications. That would include procreation and sexual matters.
That can’t be correct because it would prevent them from doing literally anything. They couldn’t pick up a stick because it might be used to hit someone or poke out an eye. They couldn’t use their hands because hands can be used to strangle someone. Feet … kicking someone. Etc.
If Adam can use his hands without doing harm then he can use his penis without doing harm.
That is not what the story says. It says they could not because they lacked the knowledge of anything that had good or evil applications. That would include procreation and sexual matters.
That can’t be correct because it would prevent them from doing literally anything. They couldn’t pick up a stick because it might be used to hit someone or poke out an eye. They couldn’t use their hands because hands can be used to strangle someone. Feet … kicking someone. Etc.
If Adam can use his hands without doing harm then he can use his penis without doing harm.
Well said, and further they even seemed to find mere nakedness sinful, which is not evil.
Yes. Why would they be ashamed of their nakedness?
God had made them naked. He had no problem with it. They had no problem with it until they ate the fruit.
It’s like the fruit messed up their thinking.
Yes. Why would they be ashamed of their nakedness?
God had made them naked. He had no problem with it. They had no problem with it until they ate the fruit.
It’s like the fruit messed up their thinking.
Which would mean either apple did not contain just knowledge, but also some strange irrational stuff, OR being naked is equivalent in kind, though not degree, to acts like rape. Which would be weird.
The story almost seems to imply that it is not knowledge, but the judgment of things being good and evil is the problem. Like they swallowed a concept that is harmful and not the truth. But then much of the Bible seems to clearly indicate that there is good and evil, and thus it is not a false set of categories.
The phrase in Hebrew: טוֹב וָרָע, tov wa-raʿ, literally translates as good and evil. This may be an example of the type of figure of speech known as merism, a literary device that pairs opposite terms together in order to create a general meaning, so that the phrase “good and evil” would simply imply “everything”. This is seen in the Egyptian expression evil-good, which is normally employed to mean “everything”. In Greek literature, Homer also uses the device when he lets Telemachus say, “I know all things, the good and the evil” (Od.20:309-10).[1]
If tree of the knowledge of good and evil is to be understood to mean a tree whose fruit imparts knowledge of everything, this phrase does not necessarily denote a moral concept. This view is held by several scholars.[1][2][3]
However, given the context of disobedience to God, other interpretations of the implications of this phrase also demand consideration. Robert Alter emphasizes the point that when God forbids the man to eat from that particular tree, he says that if he does so, he is “doomed to die”. The Hebrew behind this is in a form regularly used in the Hebrew Bible for issuing death sentences.[4]
I see it as the introduction of dualistic thinking. Consciously separating things into this and that categories.
It’s inevitable and necessary but there are undesirable consequences.
“doomed to die” is the characterization of death as a negative and the consequence is fear of death.
Buddhist enlightenment is an attempt to shed dualistic thinking and to return to the garden
That is not what the story says. It says they could not because they lacked the knowledge of anything that had good or evil applications. That would include procreation and sexual matters.
That can’t be correct because it would prevent them from doing literally anything. They couldn’t pick up a stick because it might be used to hit someone or poke out an eye. They couldn’t use their hands because hands can be used to strangle someone. Feet … kicking someone. Etc.
If Adam can use his hands without doing harm then he can use his penis without doing harm.
You are correct.
If no artistic leeway was permitted the scribes who made up this myth, it would never have been completed.
The broad theme is what is important and what I am focusing on.
Regards
DL
phyllo:That is not what the story says. It says they could not because they lacked the knowledge of anything that had good or evil applications. That would include procreation and sexual matters.
That can’t be correct because it would prevent them from doing literally anything. They couldn’t pick up a stick because it might be used to hit someone or poke out an eye. They couldn’t use their hands because hands can be used to strangle someone. Feet … kicking someone. Etc.
If Adam can use his hands without doing harm then he can use his penis without doing harm.
Well said, and further they even seemed to find mere nakedness sinful, which is not evil.
Would you go out in public naked and not want to hide your junk?
What makes you think A & E would not answer as you, I hope, did?
Regards
DL
Yes. Why would they be ashamed of their nakedness?
God had made them naked. He had no problem with it. They had no problem with it until they ate the fruit.
It’s like the fruit messed up their thinking.
I am not ashamed of my nakedness but would sure feel ashamed to be caught outside by anyone.
But hey, if that is your thing.
Regards
DL
I am not ashamed of my nakedness but would sure feel ashamed to be caught outside by anyone.
But hey, if that is your thing.
Well, we’re not talking about you or me in modern day Canada. We’re talking about Adam and Eve feeling ashamed of their nakedness when viewed by God who had sanctioned their nakedness. Which makes no sense.
The broad theme is what is important and what I am focusing on.
You’re putting forth a particular interpretation of the story. Let’s not forget it.
Would you go out in public naked and not want to hide your junk?
I don’t call it junk, but if me and my wife were the only humans, of course I would go outside, on warm enough days with no clothes on. It’s illegal in most places, so I don’t. I have done it where it is legal, gone skinny dipping. I have in other contexts. I never, ever worry about God or animals experiencing my body as sinful or shameful. And presumably God can see through clothes and further is not offended by what he created. Is it the trees they should have been ashamed in front of?
If I get undressed in a locker room, am I sinning because other people are changing also?
What makes you think A & E would not answer as you, I hope, did?
I actually think they would answer as I do, were they real individuals.
Ierrellus:IMHO, the thread still lacks a credible definition of hate as applied to Adam’s and Eve’s awakening into consequences of behavior.
If I have to define well defined words from a dictionary then you show you cannot use a dictionary.
Regards
DL
Under no definition of either love or hate in my dictionary is a mention of the Eden story.
I agree with Phyllo that this story is about dualism as a human perspective.
To see how this sense of dualism emerges in the human psyche, read the first chapter in the book of James KJV.
I am not ashamed of my nakedness but would sure feel ashamed to be caught outside by anyone.
But hey, if that is your thing.
Well, we’re not talking about you or me in modern day Canada. We’re talking about Adam and Eve feeling ashamed of their nakedness when viewed by God who had sanctioned their nakedness. Which makes no sense.
Sigh. Good manners and couth come from the tree of knowledge and you criticize A & E for having those good qualities.
You seem to think it couth to
youtube.com/watch?v=XWN65nAkk20 ------- in front of other.
Regards
DL
I don’t call it junk, but if me and my wife were the only humans, of course I would go outside, on warm enough days with no clothes on. It’s illegal in most places, so I don’t. I have done it where it is legal, gone skinny dipping. I have in other contexts. I never, ever worry about God or animals experiencing my body as sinful or shameful. And presumably God can see through clothes and further is not offended by what he created. Is it the trees they should have been ashamed in front of?
I find the shame and hatred of the human body to be strange. It’s not just in Christianity, it’s in a lot of religions and philosophies. Why is the mind-body dualism so appealing?
The broad theme is what is important and what I am focusing on.
You’re putting forth a particular interpretation of the story. Let’s not forget it.
Absolutely. The original Jewish view as opposed to what the Christian usurpers used when the reversed the moral of the story.
Who has more authority of the myth? Originators or the usurpers who pulled the story apart and forgot all about Asherah and Lilith?
Regards
DL
Greatest I am:Would you go out in public naked and not want to hide your junk?
I don’t call it junk, but if me and my wife were the only humans, of course I would go outside, on warm enough days with no clothes on. It’s illegal in most places, so I don’t. I have done it where it is legal, gone skinny dipping. I have in other contexts. I never, ever worry about God or animals experiencing my body as sinful or shameful. And presumably God can see through clothes and further is not offended by what he created. Is it the trees they should have been ashamed in front of?
If I get undressed in a locker room, am I sinning because other people are changing also?
What makes you think A & E would not answer as you, I hope, did?
I actually think they would answer as I do, were they real individuals.
If things worked well for God and as he said, they have become as gods, you might remember that god has cloths on and the right thing to do for A & E would be to emulate him.
Case closed.
Regards
DL
Greatest I am: Ierrellus:IMHO, the thread still lacks a credible definition of hate as applied to Adam’s and Eve’s awakening into consequences of behavior.
If I have to define well defined words from a dictionary then you show you cannot use a dictionary.
Regards
DLUnder no definition of either love or hate in my dictionary is a mention of the Eden story.
I agree with Phyllo that this story is about dualism as a human perspective.
To see how this sense of dualism emerges in the human psyche, read the first chapter in the book of James KJV.
Not required as Gnostic Christians recognize dualism.
Regards
DL