But people do choose it. Some think they deserve it. Some think they must suffer because others are suffering. There are other reasons. Not everyone, but a lot of people and perhaps even most in some area of their lives. People stay with people who do nto treat them well. Or people are with someone who is generally fine, but never stand up for themselves in relation to a certain pattern of treatment that feels bad. This can be caused by anything from feeling like the other person is more attractive and will leave (and this need not be correct) to excusing the other person on ridiculous grounds - their job is tough.
People often have ‘this is simply the way reality is’ internal voices that keep them from challenging the status quo. IOW a part of them begins to think that something is fucked up and an internal voice says ‘this is the way reality is and you are fucked up to expect anything different’. And so potential change and improvement gets cut off.
How does the person know whether saying “no!” is always the best moral good without 100% knowledge and wisdom (i.e. in hindsight too/prescience). I mean your thread title is “Everyone knows what is morally good or bad” when clearly they don’t - and can’t without future prediction and 100% knowledge and wisdom.
Are you trying to say that in a 100% consensual reality, they would? I mean the reality would have to be twisted to fit their consent unless they knew and were wise enough to completely understand the consequences of their reality.
That’s the only way I can make sense of your utopia. Somehow everything they consented to would magically turn out to never result in a negative consequence for them? And presumably everything they 100% consented to would also magically turn out to always result in a positive consequence for them?
Some people will consent to always being surprised and some won’t … if we’re all in our own reality of 100% consent, it shouldn’t matter to you which one they choose. So long as it’s 100% consensual and non zero sum. We have all the ingredients from platonic eternal forms, enough for everyone to get what they want without hurting others.
Umm… you’re totally missing the point of my entire thread. Abortions only happen in non consensual realities. Non consensual realities are my definition of evil.
We live in a zero sum non consensual reality: evil
We can live in a consensual non zero sum reality: good
It’s not really my opinion, it’s true by definition.
He’s right, you don’t understand what he is saying and your counterarguments are not counterarguments to his position. He bears some responsibility for his communication in this confusion and also the idea he is putting forward is not a common one. That said, saying you don’t care in relation to something where you probably have some clues that you might have misunderstood him is impractical by my standards.
This, as it applies to Ecmandu’s fantasy arguments, is irrelevant.
In his mind, we all have secret special powers, to create our own Utopia universes, where nothing bad ever happens to us and there is no suffering of course. Of course, he never explains how what spells or sorceries we must learn to make this happen, only that it can be done.
Existence doesnt actually care about human beings and will eventually make the entire human race extinct which is the ultimate lose scenario for every one
No non zero sum reality can stop this from happening as existence will carry on regardless so it is basically just another version of Utopia [ Ecmandu version ]
Even if non zero sum reality is possible it will only be digital not biological which renders it useless
Because once biological beings become extinct then it does not actually matter what replaces them
You need to upload human consciousness into a non zero sum reality to make this existence better while there are still human beings
As there is absolutely no point to it otherwise because less we can actually experience it for ourselves it is a complete waste of time
In reality as opposed to Ecmandu Utopia there is only one non zero sum reality and it is death
Because death is the end of consciousness and free will which means an end to all conflict too
Death is the answer Trixie that is the one and only way it can be done
By the way how is your version of Utopia coming along ? Any progress ?
Listen up you two : Utopias never ever work so stop dreaming about them because they are all doomed to failure
Think about death instead because not only is it real but it is also eternal so devote your energies to that instead
Don’t know any Trixie’s. The name Trixie means a voyager through life, and/or she who gives happiness. I am but a soul tossed amongst the oceans of existence. If that is what you mean by Trixie, then yes I am a Trixie. The name they gave me is not Trixie though. Trixie is a name of no name. Like Light, or Truth, or Genius, or Jack of all Trades (Joker). It means the purest of essence, no ego attachment, no self, and/or as in multiple selves. But you are the one with delusions of utopia not me.
Look. Life is suffering. None of us asked to be here. And yet we have to toil the fields and endure this loveless shitshow.
Sure life has its good moments. But death is a blessing. But also an illusion. It cannot happen. There is no such thing as infinite unconsciousness or awareness of nothing. It is impossible.
People have irrational ego attachments. They think life is good because they have some kind of ego attachment to it.
Some say I am a nihilist but they look at me in a simplistic way. I already said death is impossible. Cannot happen. All that can happen is your body dies. But you will come back to life in some other way, some other body. So people should have a vested interest in making this world into a utopia instead of a shitshow like it is. It is people like you who are nihilists. Who believe that death is the end. You have some kind of utopia fantasy that you will never have to come back to this awful place.
Get this through your head. Death does not exist. It is not a thing. It cannot exist. It is impossible. It cannot exist because it is the opposite of existence.
All that can happen is your body dies. And possibly lose your memories. So its like losing your progress in a videogame and having to start a new game. Which is annoying. Especially if each generation is more miserable than the last, so your life progressively sucks worse every time. Which is objective. There are studies the prove people are getting more and more stressed and miserable every year. Contrary to the modern dogma that says life is getting better and better. It’s not. Even the liberals are saying this. Even liberals admit that Americans are getting more and more unhappy and mentally unwell. So anyone who still believes that dogma is even out of touch with the liberals.
So let me get this right : death does not exist but your body dies ? There is a name for this process it is DEATH
Your logic is seriously failing you here o wise one I thought that you were a genius with the worlds highest IQ
So have you managed to work out how to reverse the Second Law Of Thermodynamics and live forever yet ?
When you have will you remember to tell the worlds physicists so they can be certain you have cracked it ?