Pandora,
“Considering you’re a psychedelic drug user, I’m not even sure what that means.”
I don’t use drugs to escape reality. That’s your own misconception and projection of ideas and attachment of /your/ perception upon reality.
I use them to understand it and to form imagery, “picture of a thousand words”, I use it to correlate a clearer path for and of self, for creativity. Maybe try rereading it a bunch until it registers or you understand.
“not sure where you’re going with this."
How are you not sure, it’s obvious. If we align and are on the same page as a species, we can make /progress/, evolutionary progress and we can /choose/ how we wish to evolve, the path will be more clear for us because we will understand… Bees work collectively and are subconscious aspects of nature, “innocent”. We must understand how self works so we may make the best choices for the species and our environment.
“yes, we are restricted by our biology, but it’s the same biology that has allowed us to survive this song. Scrambling it with drugs will not improve on it.”
So you’re saying diversity and creativity have no role in evolution?
We don’t live in the same world we evolved from, now we are aware of the /subconscious, archetypes, environment and a lot more than just that, including drugs. Generally, Pandora, when you mix substance A with substance B it causes a reaction, one that is good or bad objectively, this reaction from psychedelics increase awareness, this is a fact.
To expand perception and creativity is /good/ because it speeds up evolution by showing one the self if one is looking for such and to understand it. Not in all cases, some just do it for fun and not to learn or explore their subconscious mind. So in other words, coffee, sugar, fluoride, aluminum, mercury, alcohol and tobacco are all ok or good but psychedelics no. That’s nonsense and you know it is.
This society has been poisoning us for so long with toxic chemicals, environment and minerals, that’s where mental illnesses come from. Not psychedelics, psychedelics can pull illnesses out of genetics because it binds to receptors in the brain creating neural pathways for perception, that’s where hppd comes from, at the same time since it attaches to mood receptors like serotonin and melatonin, it can pull psychotic disorders out of one’s genetics and manifest it or make it worse than what it was already, so one must understand and be educated on this fact before use. It doesn’t just cause psychotic disorder out of nothing, it actually can help with some of them, given the proper settings.
“trees react to stimulus, they do not feel pain. And we do not stop being physical because everything is still based on it. The physical may evolve to become more complex or compatmentalized (or specialized) for efficiency’s sake. But that also makes it more vulnerable to corruptions. The human body is quite an intricate mechanism. It has some back up redundancies but if one found a way to bypass them (as with specific drugs) then the whole system may be compromised”
And we react to stimuli as well, just in a different way ours is through, a heightened perception. This easily shows that consciousness is not merely created by the brain. This shows that nature and other life are subconscious but not fully conscious, a lot of them act out of instincts. Consciousness manifests out of the subconscious and yes, it is eternal because it is both nothing and since we are manifested and exist, it’s also a potential everything, within the consistent universal laws, such as the law of conservation, gravity, etc. We aren’t bypassing anything, what do you mean? We’re literally just using them to expand perception. How can you say it doesn’t exist when it does, it’s literally right in reality, I stated the possible negatives but that’s up to an individual to determine risk Vs reward, the reward can be great depending on environment and an intent to understand or correlate/breed a new idea. So a flower whimpering when it is cut is not an indication of pain?
“Aligned by all of us doing drugs?”
Aligned by everyone seeking to understand for the sake of understanding, aligned by everyone discovering self and being educated by having a perception that can think in multiple methods to seek what is consistent and objective along with what can be manifested as objective.
“Natural selection drives evolution, and it has formed our bodies and sense organs to function as they do now. If you want to take it into your own hands and do hallucinogens (which our body perceives as poison) you may now do so, but I believe this move is an error. Most drug users, even in our relatively comfortable modern worlds do not end well (I’m not even speaking about survival of drug users in the wild).”
That’s what I just said, natural selection, trial and error, diversity of variables. Even cellular life is subconscious, we live in it’s image, and through understanding, we can consciously create things out of it by understanding it’s imagery. It doesn’t always give you what you want, I’d hardly say guilt or “judgement” is what one wants. There is a reason prison is supposed to be isolation for a person and dull, to force them to reflect on what they have done, reflect using the subconscious to criticize the ego. It doesn’t perceive it as poison when they are only slightly different than serotonin…
“the subconscious is not eternal, it is undifferentiated and unintelligent. When you deal with subconscious the GIGO rule applies: it will give you what you want, it will not give you “reality”.”
You do realize you’re in the reality of the subconscious already right? That’s what reality is. It’s a balance out of chaos and order, existence. Subconsciousness began with the first reaction of two or more variables, life came after chaos evolved to have order then chaos and order evolved into existence.
So do you understand that creations resemble their creators? If the subconscious was before consciousness then what does that tell you? The great thing is that we may use our consciousness which evolved out of subconsciousness to further explore ourself on a macro and micro level. Reality is it’s dream, it’s everything and nothing. We’re merely branches of nature. This is literally what you linked me about Kant and creating reality/nature as well. I’m sorry I can’t write in a way which you can understand me fully because that is all I really am trying to do, help you understand and see the whole image of things. It is the beginning of everything so how is it not eternal? When they write in religions and mythology they attribute “god” as the creator, which it is the subconscious mind. Ideas come from it along with other instinctual aspects to help us cope and better understand our role as both a living individual and as a collective species. In pagan religion the many gods were metaphorical archetypes, expression of man’s inner psyche/instincts, which is what, Pandora? Subconsciousness.
Before one can live, do they not have to discover self? Do you believe self to be a byproduct of environment without understanding that we are byproducts of environment? To win chess, you must play the game and that’s all I am doing, trying to help others the only way I can and that will actually help, education and understanding.
“the formation of ego is like the hardening of the skull in a growing child, or hardening of spikes in a baby porcupine, it is something that one is born with. The human ego develops naturally at about 3 years, it is not an indoctrination process”
Consciousness manifests and ego is created, this ego can be shapen by environment… Which is very clearly, indoctrination of ideology/culture. No it is not something one is simply born with, explain retardation and other crippling disadvantages that alter an ego or its ability/capability to and of functioning in environment or fully grasping of concepts, some of which are simple, consciously. Explain animals, it evolves and sometimes one doesn’t or isn’t evolved genetically(of which genetics are also shapen by environment) to be fully conscious.
“The laws of nature and survival have not changed. To breed instincts out will mean extinction.”
No one is arguing that they have changed but man however, can change by understanding what is. Yeah and I’m telling you, if we don’t choose to consciously evolve we will go extinct, which is literally what I am advocating and trying to explain to you. There are some instincts I believe will be and can be bred out by collective evolution like addiction or a self/species harming form of coping. Fight or flight is another one I believe we can understand further or if not breed out at least learn to manage better, anger and what not.
"Built in instincts, yes. But you’re romanticising subconscious too much, I think. Like I said, it cannot give you all the answers, at best it can give you want you really want, it can give you a confirmation (which could be a lie), hense GIGO. It is not an independent or intelligent entity. "
I don’t think so, I am not expecting to get all the answers, answers and evolution is not measurable, it will continue so long as there is a state of duality that births wisdom and consciousness.
A nightmare isn’t “what I wanted”, guilt isn’t wanted, criticism or judgement of self isn’t wanted… But it’s needed, know why? Pursuit of evolving.
So you’re saying we are not intelligent entities then. Intelligence manifested /after/ life and subconscious instinct so technically it does mean it is intelligent, as us and whatever other life forms there are similar to us.
“That sounds like a drug induced perception”
You just aren’t comprehending what I am saying which I am not responsible for. You clearly don’t understand how the ripple effect and evolution work out of a duality such as chaos and order and the subconscious manifestation of consciousness through experiencing (which the beginning of experience was instinctive).
“You ignore the error element. Reality perceived on drugs is not the same as reality perceived while sober. If you’re saying it is while already sober then I would have to say that you’re merging the two and already knee deep in the swamp.”
You don’t understand how psychedelics work… Subconscious mind comes out to play, which means the visuals and perception have everything to do with environment and the persons subconscious mood at that time, which shows what? That one can control a trip or the experiencing of the drug. You are literally conscious of the subconscious when on a psychedelic but also at the same time conscious of reality, unless it’s dmt then I usually close my eyes for the imagery because it is powerful.
“A drug induced conscious dream state (hallucination) is a corruption of perception of reality, which you call just another reality. So, I’m curious if you even recognize a general concept of corruption (or error in) of perception of reality? Because if you don’t then survival and all mechanisms associated with it would become functionally irrelevant. In fact, your own existence would become irrelevant as well.”
So since we cannot see the wind is it not there? Since we can’t see a germ does it mean illness doesn’t exist? You do know this is why we need science right? To develop /tools/ to detect and measure reality because our senses are limited… Psychedelics improve perception and awareness, which means what? You can see things you normally wouldn’t and can even will them into existence by subconscious feeling and environment. Psychedelics are a tool to be used out of nature. Like coffee and other drugs. My experience is just as real as normal reality because that’s how perception works, objectively, no, it isn’t going to appear to everyone unless they do the same substance and it reacts with their brain, but I promise you after one tries it and understands fully, our perception and understanding will be consistent with each other. That is normally how evolution works, you try something new and good results come from it… It’s a very basic concept Pandora. Good results have definitely came from psychedelics and drugs, especially art, music and ideas along with it being the evidence to a view of the bigger image of things.
"Well, all brainwashing has a good purpose, depending on who you ask. "
Ok and would you rather shape yourself or be shapen without knowing you have been?
“By taking drugs you’re not engaging reality, you’re engaging only your reality (i.e. fantasy). All you did is redefine your reality as more (or just as) real, and then you proceeded down the road of escapism.”
There is more to “reality” than meets the normal human eye, literally, science has already proven this. I am engaging a reality of which environment and subconscious can manifest patterns and imagery, it’s like a form of communication with nature, do you see what I am saying? How can something be real if everything is an illusion? So if I take a drug and add on to what is already an illusion, is it even more of an illusion than reality? Reality is not merely subject to our consciousness/ego, that’s the point of evolution, to develop a sense of reality of which we can understand it all fully and continue expanding… The ego is temporary and we recycle, so why be afraid of death? Because one is not fulfilled until they live as self. This has been proven on many people’s death bed. The point is to live unique as self as to contribute to evolution using diverse expression and interacting with and in reality. There is nothing to escape either, I am appreciative of existence being what it is, a giant, fragmented and abundant variety of, contrast.
“think that you yourself really honestly believe that you can do all of that, especially while tripping, and maybe even more, but that’s the limit of it, and that’s the catch of the drug bait - full conviction, which makes it even more dangerous.”
While tripping?
I can close my eyes and imagine, a trip or psychedelic makes it so I don’t have to close my eyes, that’s the only difference, heightened conscious perception.
“I would not want to form neural pathways on drugs. That’s self maiming and is wrong on so many levels”
Best not drink coffee or participate in reality then, because here, we evolve via drugs and chemical reactions and environment. Do you eat red meat, do you drink alcohol? Do you eat sugar? Then you’re already “self maiming”. Every choice you make and every choice that has been made that has crossed you, could be considered a “maim” then, with your logic.
“Then move to a desert. The living there is usually cheaper, and it’s less crowded. People actually do that. (In real life!)”
again, society keeps individuals entrapped through a monetary system and coercion of survival. It’s as obvious as day time.
“He’s not advocating psychedelics, although he himself used them (he considers himself a part of drug culture), but he’s pointing to the lack of research (a point conceded to Silhuette) and their dangers which most people in drug culture choose to downplay or circumvent.
Perhaps more time is needed to see the greater fallout of this experiment, but I think it will eventually confirm my belief. There is a big drug culture fad going on right now and everybody’s jumping on the bandwagon as if it were the next best thing, but reality does not work this naively. If it’s too good to be true, too easy, or presented as a shortcut, it’s likely just another trap, and considering how it works on the brain, a very powerful one.”
What you deem “too good to be true” doesn’t mean anything to reality, it is what it is. Short cut? Why do you get to determine what is a “short cut”? You think us evolving for a million years to finally understand ourself and our ability to control our own evolution via environment and drugs/molecules is a fucking “shortcut”? You need to understand context better.
Maybe you should take a step back from your ego and see the bigger imagery at work here. Drug culture fad? We have been using drugs for a long time to evolve why do you think they’re illegal and not “researched”? Oh I could tell you, maybe because, hmm… It heightens awareness and government doesn’t want every person aware.
No one said they aren’t dangerous, so you’re arguing a moot point, I already explained their dangers by manifestation of psychosis through /genetics/ if the disorder is already embedded in it. Yeah and there is also a reason only 100 people have watched his interview, because of his own “lack of research”. It has been researched and well documented already, the dangers of psychedelics and drugs.