Brunei: Adultery, Homosexuality - Stone to Death

The country of Brunei recently enforced the following Laws;

One point most people are still ignorant is the above aggression to impose such brutal laws are inherent within the ideology of Islam.

The irony is whilst the many governments and the famous who condemn the above, are at the same time apologists for the ideology of Islam which inherently insist on such brutalities.

One thing is I do NOT condemn these SOME Muslims’ zeal to enforce these Laws which are the requirements within the ideology of Islam.
The problem is these Muslims are caught in a dilemma because they cannot go against God’s words in the Quran to earn eternal life in Paradise to soothe their existential crisis.

Muslims are caught in a catch-22 situation.
To be morally human wise, they have to go against the barbaric Laws of Allah. But because the existential crisis is a more stronger and threatening force, they would prefer to go with Allah’s Law than the more humane obligations.

Do you see the inherent evil elements within the ideology of TROP [the religion of peace]?
Comments?

Why does it matter if homos and hussies are stoned to death? Don’t you need another religion in order to proclaim Islam is wrong?

Do the new laws exempt visiting members of the lgt community?
What if, lets say , Rachael Maddow or Anderson Cooper were to visit and try to interview the Sultan, would they also be in harm’s way?

I bet Fox News and the Washington Post would run different versions on it, if it were to happen.

Would Trump retaliate by flying in the secret service removing the Sultan into a U.S. max.security establishment, and turning Brunei into an annexed territory like Puerto Rico, for who ever heard of hurricanes in Brunei.

I read that only applies to Muslims and committed within that country.
That’s discrimination??

Whether it is applicable to Muslims or others, the point here is such Laws are inhumane and barbaric to the individual’s basic human right. It is obvious that is an insult to the LGBT individuals.

One point to note is the Muslims apologists and ironically the Left which is a strong supporter of LBGT are also a strong supporter of Islam based on their ignorance or political convenience.

While the apologists and the Left are coddling and placating to Islam, they will realize after it is too late when certain groups of Islamists take whatever control. Note how fast the two Islamists abuse their power to the Islamic agenda the moment they are in Congress.
Analoglically, the apologists and the Left [many] are seduced by the rattler’s sweet sound of the rattler-snake.

While I don’t think adulterers should be stoned, there should be some sort of punishment for it.

Oh yes, the sultan of Brunei …

The bastion of morality!

The man notorious for paying, and almost bankrupting his country, for the highest cost for a single prostitute in the world 600,000 dollars in today’s money, 400,000 at the time.

Not to mention, if he couldn’t buy them, he and his security forces would ground the planes of world famous models and actresses and rape them at the Brunei airport.

Oh yes, swell man, right ?

People like that deserve a special circle in hell for sure.

These laws just prove it even more

I agree there must be some sort of punishment for adultery [e.g. justification for divorce] but not homosexuality.

There are all sorts of DIRTY royalty and political leaders.
Based in his pasts, the King of Brunei is hypocritical.
But I believe he is more driven to ensure he will not be dethroned by the Muslim masses and majority, thus he has no choice but to please the fundamentalist Muslims.

But the more serious issue is the King and kingdom of Brunei resort to rely on the authority of an illusory God [which is impossible to be real] for its laws.
It is in Islam that God said so, i.e. adultery and homosexual acts [& proven homosexuals] must be punished by stoning to death.
It is because God said so, thus there is no compromise but to enact such laws.

Analogically, it the same as the some country enacting certain Laws based on what Santa said so!

This is why it is so critical to demonstrate the real truth that
‘God is an impossibility to be real’
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193474

When is proven God is an impossibility, then what the Government of Brunei is relying upon barbaric man-made doctrines to enact their brutal, barbaric laws. That was never a real God who delivered his words, commands and laws that are enforceable on any human being.

When God is proven as an impossibility to be real, no government, groups or anyone will have any opportunity to impose their rights and evil intents on others in God’s name.

Why not natural consequences? People judge you socially. Decide to side with your partner against you in some small or large ways. The person you supposedly loved gets angry, or leaves you, or also cheats, or goes cold, or stops having sex with you or is, well, sad and that affects you…we are pretty creative with punishments but also people have internal punishments.
It seems to me this a place where we don’t need government or court involvement. And then sometimes poeple cheat, perhaps often, when something else is fucked up in the relationship the other person is responsible for. They ignore you regularly, they have gone cold, they dismiss your feelings…whatever. The dramatic act of adultery might be committed by the person who has been and even still is the more committed loving partner. I am not saying it justifies the adultery, or accepting that it doesn’t, just that it can be a facile decision to call the other spouse a victim.

I don’t think that there should be a punishment for adultery. A couple should be honest with each other and allow each other to have sex with others.

I have nothing against any couple doing this. Though at some point it becomes strange to refer to them as a couple.

Family can be a center for raising children. Children also will have different opinion about adultery.

What would the word natural mean in this context?
To me it would mean what individuals and communities would do in the absence of big government and modern, abstract, simplistic ideologies like liberalism and libertarianism philosophers dreamt up ex nihilo overnight.
Husbands/wives often report being so angry with their adulterous spouse they could kill them, and some do, in spite of the legal consequences.
For millennia this desire for retribution was institutionalized by many if not every culture from primitive hunter-gatherers to more advanced tribes.
They made adultery a crime, and the consequences were often swift, and severe.
Only now, in the post-industrial, technocratic age have we begun to treat it more casually.

But I think penalizing adultery could even be made compatible with libertarianism.
After all libertarianism is all about contracts, and marriage is a kind of contract.
If we have business contracts, why not sexual ones?
There could be different forms of marriage contracts spouses could agree to and pay the state to recognize and enforce.
Partners could agree on the consequences before they marry, from paying fines, to imprisonment, to death in states that permit it.

And it’s not like jealousy only exists because of the institution of marriage, no the institution of marriage was created to deal with the natural, jealous feelings people have, it didn’t invent them, rather it’s a way of regulating them.

Agreed, I don’t have a problem with homosexuality, it’s consensual, harmless, natural and we have too many kids as is, we don’t need to force people into heterosexual relationships, but I have a problem with adultery because it’s a violation of a contract, does harm to both spouses and families, and jealousy is natural, and healthy within marriage.

If spouses want to sleep with someone else they need to get a divorce, and there should be big fines for the spouse who initiates divorce, unless they are genuinely fleeing abuse, severe neglect or adultery.

Observe Rome, a wide variety of sexual expression was permitted, including homosexuality, yet adultery was criminalized, because adultery is different, it’s a violation of a very serious contract.

If you don’t take the contract seriously, don’t get married, simple as that.

Yes, the contract … and the need for both parties to comply with the agreed terms of the contract.

Note the mentioned of the agreed original contract. Adultery would imply there is no consent from one of the party.

However if a couple decide on mutual agreement to go into sex-swapping or orgies with others [terminate the that specific term of the original marital contract], that would be their discretion. I have no problem with that.

I gave examples. I have experienced them.

I think the laws against honor type killings and jealous rage killing are fine.

If you are married and cheat there are still financial consequences. It is treated like a contract, though less and less.

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Sure, but I don’t see a reason to punish adultery like a crime.

I don’t want the state to do that. I don’t want the woman I love to not fuck around because the state will hurt her. That doesn’t help me, at all, in the slightest. That just means fear of third parties keeps her from doing what she wants. Rather than self-care, love for me, etc.

The state is welcome to protect my body and property from strangers, but if I need to state to regulate the behavior of someone I love, I am the problem. Because I should not be in a relationship with them. The other person is likely also messed up, but I need to take responsibility for the choice I made
and I will be better off with someone else if I actually need the state to be a whip to keep them loving and respectful of me.

Prismatic,

Where reality is concerned I tend not to think in such binary or absolute terms, as you seem to. I think that empirical evidence is very important and tells us a great deal about the nature of reality. But I don’t rule out the possibility that things can exist beyond the scope of what empirical methods of examination are able to find. For me, reality is both empirical and experiential, I’m not trying to prove anything. I am just a person in a Universe that is absolutely massive. How can I possibly hope to be to making absolute claims about what is universally real and what is not?

This is not right from my perspective. How can I prove that your arguement is wrong if you believe that it is perfect? Do you not see the problem?

The point of criminalizing adultery is not to force someone you love to be with you, but to keep someone you love, who no longer loves you (as much) or never loved you in the first place from disrespecting you, taking advantage of you, using you, claiming they love you and only you, and than doing something completely different behind your back.
We’re talking about criminalizing adultery here, not divorce, if they’re no longer devoted to you, they should get a divorce, or if they were never devoted to you, they shouldn’t’ve married you in the first place.
They need to be held accountable for the vows they voluntarily took.