New Discovery

there is no such thing as ‘evil’, but as close as we can come to calling someone evil would involve identifying the disparity between intent and action… so yeah, you’re sorta right. but really this quality ‘evil’ only amounts to incompetence, which is what we call that rift between one’s beliefs and one’s actions. in the context of this thread, this rift was identified as the incompetence of any individual or state that believes these three things in unison: that the structure of their current society is not conducive of excessive conflict, that partaking in such conflict purposely is immoral, and that those who do have objective knowledge of ‘right and wrong’ (of which there is none) also have the freewill (which doesn’t exist) to choose one or the other. it is these three systemic errors in reasoning that combine to produce the sum total of such egregious incompetence. now if anything were ‘evil’, it would be this.

but there’s more. what here appears to look like an excess of power as it is usually understood - the ruthlessness of a society that holds itself together even while these three fundamental errors are operating… and how this seems to demonstrate a body that is strong enough to incorporate its errors without jeopardizing its vitality - it is really a total absence of power in that this society demonstrates that it needs to lie in order to function. and here is where the problem of ‘intent’ is raised, and how what is most simply just a kind of incompetence now becomes something gross and contemptible.

that so many centuries have been spent in designing the erroneous theoretical and philosophical background against which western capitalism has evolved, is quite frankly astonishing. if it stood only on social darwinism and had the courage to accept the logical consequences of this premise, it wouldn’t be so contemptible. but it had to not only create an order in which a minority could live and prosper off the productive energies of a majority, but also devise carefully thought-out ideological trappings which would help it sustain itself against what would result from pure anarcho-capitalism. such things as ‘equal opportunity’, ‘moral right and wrong’ and ‘freewill’ would become cornerstones to this process. finally the glaring incompetence reveals itself to those who have greater insight into the machinery. these three fabrications aren’t just lies, but useful lies to a system that is so weak and with such cowardice, it cannot prosper without them. if it stopped holding to these lies, social darwinism in its purest and most volatile form would take life and quickly eliminate those who’ve relied on such lies to sustain their places of false power.

anywho what i’m saying here won’t make much sense unless you are able to assess great spans of history, their social and economic structures, and the respective ‘philosophies’ that backed them through their development. there is a very distinct pattern or direction of thought from platonism to analytical philosophy; the first comes into existence to back the aristocratic contempt for materialism… the last comes into existence to destroy that entire lineage of lies.

disposing of the myth of ‘freewill’ is a surgical strike against the status-quo and, ironically, frees those who are oppressed by such tyranny from being subject to the operant conditioning of guilt… something that is critically important to the status-quo for keeping those who are subordinate to it, under control.

it really is a big deal, dude… i mean as far as the social sciences are concerned. get the idea of freewill out of the heads of people and western capitalism will suffer a tremendous blow. greater attention will be paid to those environmental factors/circumstances which statistically produce crime and conflict, than ever before. and that’s precisely what the capitalist/conservatives don’t want to happen.

oh cool here’s a rough analogy for ya. take an animal (poverty stricken criminal) that’s infested with a parasite (capitalism). the parasite hijacks the mind of the animal (philosophy of freewill and objective morality) and makes the animal believe that not only was his crime of stealing ‘immoral’, but also that he had a choice not to steal.

in doing this the parasite is able to regulate and keep manageable the dysfunctional behavior of the animal that it has caused through its infestation. the animal becomes a zombie that the parasite can continue to feed off of.

danielmiessler.com/blog/free-wi … agreement/

For the above reason i suspect that pro-forma, the positivist group is not only a defensive approach , but a harbor for instigating a reduction into an absurd epoch, literally!

There is no sense in entertaining data, that belies the sense of certainty through which it can make sense of it.

Here an intensional structural requirement develops , leading to a supposed and overblown arsenal of political power.

It will continue the conflation until it needs no further justification, because it will become independent of
It.

It all fell apart where the social power through authority lost credence.

Loss of political power is replaced by it’s figurative counterpart.

So go and figure$

However, the ‘parasite’ is the generic middle man, without which absolute.control would need to be exercised, it would morph into the auto-immune virus that brings the systemic ‘evil’ back into an unsustainable feedback system.

Which is factored in, where the epoch is sustainable only by utilizing an absolutely variable resource system.

Not bliss but lack of consciousness is innocence, that’s why babies, mentally incapacitated and animals are innocent.

And what is proposed instead of capitalism?

gloomism, the brainchild of our very own gloominary.

The ones who are expected to loose innoscence, do not include the last two. Babies , of course to puberty are included. So let’s not put all in one grab bag. The gloom and doom of disqualification is a natural process, not a categorical imperative.

It’s been awhile since I’ve been here. It seems this thread got completely off track from the original intent to explain why man’s will is not free and what this means for the benefit of all mankind.

declineandfallofallevil.com/ … APTERS.pdf

So how would that have a benefit to mankind if it were true? My stance is still that both exist and operate from each other.

Because responsibility for one’s actions is increased, not decreased. The impact of this knowledge is huge because it prevents what blame and punishment could not accomplish.

Blame and punishment even in a free will state is still not useful though. Why do those things only seem useless when “operating out of determinism” and not a will that is free to the extent of its understanding?

Artimus: So how would that have a benefit to mankind if it were true? My stance is still that both exist and operate from each other.

Peacegirl: Because responsibility for one’s actions is increased, not decreased. The impact of this knowledge is huge because it prevents what blame and punishment could not accomplish.

Artimus: Blame and punishment even in a free will state is still not useful though. Why do those things only seem useless when “operating out of determinism” and not a will that is free to the extent of its understanding?

Blame and punishment in a free will state can be justified because it is believed a person who did wrong had a choice to do otherwise and now has to pay. The belief in free will is the cornerstone of our present justice system. Under determinism, punishment cannot be justified knowing that will is not free. How can you justify punishing a person for that which he had no control over?

You mean in a determined existence people have the freewill to decide whether actions are determined or not? Whether punishment is correct or not?

We still have the ability to choose between options (which many people define as free will), but the choice, once made, was never a free one.

Choosing, or the comparison of differences, is an integral part of man’s
nature, but to reiterate this important point…he is compelled to prefer of
alternatives that which he considers better for himself and though he
chooses various things all through the course of his life, he is never
given any choice at all.

“We still have the ability to choose between options (which many people define as free will), but the choice, once made, was never a free one.”

Peacegirl says the above: quantum distinctions can be likened to Leibnitz’ imperceptible differences as two spheres approach identity, therefore if we cannot differentiate them, our responsibility for choosing the wrong path is worthy of absolution.

Not really!

Our responsibility for choosing whatever path we choose, from the imperceptible differences to the largest is done not of our own free will. Therefore we are not in the position to judge which behaviors are worthy of absolution and those that are not. No one is to blame if will is not free. Paradoxically, the advance knowledge that there will be no consequences presents consequences that are still worse. I know you don’t understand why choosing the “wrong” path (the path that hurts others) is prevented, thereby no need for absolution which is still a judgment by others as to who deserves no pardon in a free will society of blame and punishment.

Paradoxical to the point that it seems to make no sense.

Why wouldn’t some people just do a bunch of atrocious things?

(Justified by “I’m not to blame for what I do”.)

And I’m not even talking about the 5% of the population who are psychopaths and sociopaths.