Cults of "Innocence"

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:07 pm

A post-modern, 'western' psychosis.

Glorification of innocence where the actor denies all responsibility for the consequences of his own choices and actions.
The actor identifies only with the lucid part of the self - the "I" in " thing therefore I am"- denying all actions performed without its awareness.
Furthermore, the actor associates himself only with his 'intent' or what it thinks its intent is, rejecting any consequence that contradicts this intent.

The individual remains innocent of all negative consequences, and may selectively only accept responsibility for the "positive" consequences, creating mind/body dissonance.

This is an example of how identity is enclosed within mind and only the part that is conscious of itself - this is what they call the spirit.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:11 pm

The US is the epitome of a victim, innocent of the world's resentment - identifying only with tis stated intent, i.e., to spread democracy and freedom - and ignoring any other possibility, or the unstated intents of tis behaviour on th world stage.
It is a hyper-power that claims innocence, or victim identity. Hated because others envy its freedoms. the explanation of this psychosis is always self-flattering, because ti can only accept what it believes its intent is.

This is like a psychotic murdering old people to save them from old age. In his mind he is innocent of any wrong ding because he identifies only with his lucid intent, which is 'good'.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:16 pm

Victim identity is built on the façade of innocence.
Consider the topic of 'hard' determinism. The individual rejects all choices, actions, made by the body, or without the conscious mind's awareness.
It is innocent, and a victim of something other than itself.
The self is always identified with the lucid part of the mind.
We can call this lucid part the 'ego' to differentiate it from the entire continuum of processes, activities, we call 'self'.

The individual's identity is associated with the ego.
Therefore, we get these minds trapped ni the 'wrong' body - victims of a mishap.
A male identity - ego - trapped in a female body.
The choices and activities - mostly reactive - are rejected as belonging to other than self, i.e. ego.
Mind/Body dissonance where even the mind is divided against itself - schizophrenia.
we have the interesting phenomenon of a mind contradicting tis own physical presence, or physicality altogether.
This is where nihilism takes root.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:24 pm

Victim identity must claim innocence.
Nothing it chooses or none of its actions are recognized as the source of negative consequences, particularly when its 'stated intent' is always 'positive', well-meaning, innocent of any ulterior motive.

We see here how a selfish gene can evolve a selfish meme. The organism but a zombified actor unaware of the ideology's intents.
Ask a Marxist why Communism produced so many dead. The intent was good, the bad was a product of other factors.
It's always others who are to blame, for the ego to remain innocent - pure.
Worthy of salvation, or pity, or communal aid.

Freedom is expressed as choice. the innocent victim only identifies with the lucid part of its choice - its intent - rejecting any underlying motive as unintentional therefore not applicable to it.
It is only accountable for what it intended, not what occurred as a consequence of its own intentional choices.
A slave is chosen by the master, remaining innocent because it has no choice - its intents, choices, are limited. It is innocent.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:27 pm

Within this context of innocence. a lion is innocent if it is not aware of its own intentions.
Absence of self-awareness means innocence - victim identity.
Plants are always innocent actors.
Animals with no self-awareness are also innocent. There is no sense of self, no ego, and so no lucid intention.

Bacteria, and viruses and parasites are also innocent because they are unaware of their own actions….there is no ego.
Their affect on other organisms is innocent. They are not to be blamed.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:30 pm

Self-Deceit can now be included as a factor in preserving innocence.
As long as the individual denies the negative consequence of tis own choices and actions, it preserves its innocence.
Self-delusion is vital.
Retardation is central.
The individual can now choose and act without any sense of the possible negative consequences. It remains innocent, and always a victim of the 'negative' consequences.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Seek essence - nature, physis - in the rational.
Seek metaphysics in the irrational - psychology, psyche.
Seek ideology in the synthesis of the two. Different because these dominate in different degrees within each individual.

Past (nature) - Present/Appearance (nurturing, interpreting) - Future (projection of the previous two - synthesis)

Past is the determined (immutable); Present is the determining (dynamic, mutating - existing); Future is the yet to be determined (objective/goal)/ideal).

Body/Nervous System/Mind
Subjective/Movement-Momentum/Objective

Triangulation is how a predator relates with reality.
The triad is central in the human condition.
The fourth is what encompasses the three into a oneness - singularity, absolute; a whole. A product of the nervous system. A way of simplifying/generalizing the dynamic (fluctuating) into an abstraction (idea).
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:50 pm

An empath is the opposite of a narcissist.
Empathy is objective, cold.
Most mistake antipathy/sympathy with empathy because most cannot understand other without projecting what they know of self, into the other's circumstances; a 'self' they underestimate or, more likely overestimate.
This is why most accuse others for their own failures. They cannot accept their error as being a product of overestimating self in relation to other.
Empathy is more sophisticated, necessitating one more cognitive step - eliminating ego from the projection, until the other is revealed in degree, never completely.

Arrogance clouds judgments, just as inferiority complexes do. It overwhelms judgment with ego.
Underestimating self is as corruptive as overestimating self, only the latter is part of how natural selection weeds our the fit from the unfit; the latter produces procrastination, lethargy, passivity, fatalism.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:56 pm

Victimhood or Herd Psychology

What does the individual do to explain what is done to it?
It seeks the culprit outside himself. He is never responsible for anything negative that occurs to him.
Most of the time he only accepts responsibility for the positive that happens to him.
Hypocrisy.
There is always some other to accuse and blame, and the reasons are always self-flattering.
Why does this 'evil' other do such harsh things to the victim?
Because he is envious, or despises his superior ethics, or his/her beauty.
The self is never held accountable. In some instances the self is denied existence altogether.

The opposite of nobility which begins with accepting responsibility for what it does and what is done to it, if not as a consequence of tis own choices and actions then because it failed, is some way, to appreciate the potential in the other.
This dopes not absolve the other of responsibility it only begins with the self as the agency that acted or failed to act, in relation to the other.

The US is an empire infested by a parasite to the degree where its unprecedented dominance is based on identifying with being a 'victim' of world envy. It has thoroughly adopted the victim identity as a passive-agressive tactic to explain why the world reacts to its activities, imposing its own culture-of-no-culture upon other nations.
A paradox arises.
How can power based on identifying with powerless victimhood, justify itself? Once power is attained, using the victim status, then how can it continue to justify itself, particularly when maintaining this power necessitates agression upon others?
It must lie.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:28 pm

A moral superiority that ones own side is always right and therefore everyone else is by default wrong and is morally inferior by implication
This is now a feature of some of the left who label anyone who disagrees with them as a fascist so claim moral superiority by virtue of this
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Del Ivers » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:40 pm

And what is this that I see on a moonlit night? It looks like the shadow of someone by one of the Parthenon columns. Is it a person or the column itself? Tyche touches me on the shoulder and says we must go. I say there's no need to worry, I recognize the difference of atomic density between the shadow and the column. I've seen this before, and no doubt it will continue in some form for at least a couple of millennia. "Will the shadow last that long?", Tyche asks. "That depends on how long the shadow remembers the light", I say to her. Still, Tyche wants to leave. I smile at her then we both walk away. I turn my head to get another look. I can hear whispering.

Well, Mr. C. (or an incredible Aegean simulation thereof). Interesting to see you around here. I visited a little while back. A few nice voices but I didn't stay long. No particular reason for it, simply atoms moving on and regrouping somewhere.

By the way, Happy Holidays. Or whatever your atoms consider to be a holy day.

moon-parthenon.jpg
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:11 pm

Del Ivers wrote:And what is this that I see on a moonlit night? It looks like the shadow of someone by one of the Parthenon columns. Is it a person or the column itself? Tyche touches me on the shoulder and says we must go. I say there's no need to worry, I recognize the difference of atomic density between the shadow and the column. I've seen this before, and no doubt it will continue in some form for at least a couple of millennia. "Will the shadow last that long?", Tyche asks. "That depends on how long the shadow remembers the light", I say to her. Still, Tyche wants to leave. I smile at her then we both walk away. I turn my head to get another look. I can hear whispering.

Well, Mr. C. (or an incredible Aegean simulation thereof). Interesting to see you around here. I visited a little while back. A few nice voices but I didn't stay long. No particular reason for it, simply atoms moving on and regrouping somewhere.

By the way, Happy Holidays. Or whatever your atoms consider to be a holy day.

moon-parthenon.jpg

The column shape creates illusions.
Come closer to feel the marble.
I more than once slipped on the way up; on stones polished by millions of barbarous sandals, and my own wet with sweat. Tyche was with me on that day.

There's no reason to come here, at all, if you are not seeking distractions. This is a sanitarium of modern sickness, and I but an amateur practitioner of empathy.

I always keep the holidays, warped as they may be.
A yearly change of pace, spent with wine and fine dining in makeshift symposiums.

May your gods be kind to you.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:50 pm

If all are innocent, then who is the guilty one?
If all are victims, then who is the victimizer?
The ones that deny them this comforting status.
This is the evil aggressor of harmless innocence.

The guilt ridden tribes have discovered ways to rid themselves of their shame. They've embraced it and redefined it into a new, occult, kind of pride only the initiated can enjoy.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:32 pm

How does that saying go....
The Jew screams out in pain as he strikes you.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 pm

Identity is a reflection of self upon other.
We discover ourselves as the negation of other.
"I am what I am not"

Gradually we learn how to not lose ourselves in the other, and to perceive ourselves as a variation.
This is why empathy is often mistaken for sympathy, and rarely as antipathy, when, in fact it is not.
Empathy is to sympathy/antipathy, what subjectivity is to objectivity.
When we learn how to differentiate our projections of ourselves, from the other, we can gradually distinguish the variance which distinguishes the other from ourselves.
But this is difficult, not only because ti requires a strong imagination but it also requires the elimination of the ego from our analysis.

The ego is the source of nihilism - a defensive reaction to self-awareness. Ego is the vulnerable, insecure awakening to one's self, because it exposes us to how we relate and compare with other.
Nietzsche diagnosed nihilism as a modern disease, but he never traced it to its source.
What does the ego do to protect itself from other?
It projects its noumena, its mental constructs, its abstractions, into reality so as to 'correct' it. It projects absolutes, because reality does not provide them to it.
In the mind is where it seeks shelter from a threatening and indifferent cosmos, and to validate itself it seeks companions, followers, fellow believers that will support its escape and to share in the maintenance of the esoteric alternate reality.
A community of egos pooling their resources to project a shared idea/ideal.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:29 pm

The greatest absolute is God who is a perfect antidote to the hard reality of finite existence and eternal death
Were human beings eternal it would not be necessary to invent him because death could never be experienced
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:42 pm

The greater absolute is the concept 'one', also called 'whole'.
Its advantage is that ti is completely abstract - an idea.
God is anthropomorphic, and this can be divisive and have an emotional impact.

'One' taken literally and not as what it is - a representative symbol and an abstraction - is the secular form of the Abrahamic one-god.
Both imply the absent absolute.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 pm

Abstraction in the form of language can explain reality but it should never be its replacement or substitute
The only truly knowable absolute thing about the Universe is that it is all that exists and it is all that needs to be accepted
Absolutes that are unfalsifiable [ God ] may bring psychological comfort but accepting reality as it is is far more preferable
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:58 pm

Nietzsche predicted apocalypse because of the rejection of God but that was not because of nihilism
All of human history has had mass belief of different manifestations but war still existed despite this
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:11 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:Abstraction in the form of language can explain reality but it should never be its replacement or substitute
The only truly knowable absolute thing about the Universe is that it is all that exists and it is all that needs to be accepted
Absolutes that are unfalsifiable [ God ] may bring psychological comfort but accepting reality as it is is far more preferable

Existence is open ended, so it cannot be referred to as complete, whole.
Man can only conceptualize it by reducing it to a thing, a singularity...an idea.

What does not exist is, by definition, non-existent.
All we can say about existence is from the inside, and from the inside there are no complete, wholes, unless we arbitrarily posit boundaries that cut away a part of existence to convert it, as it is done by the mind, into a singular thing.
Language can only represent these abstractions.

All we can say abot existence is that ti is dynamic - interactive, i.e., energy.
What has a pattern is translated into kinds of matter/energy; what lacks a pattern - is chaotic - cannot be translated so it is conceived as darkness.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby surreptitious75 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:39 pm

We conceptualise existence in order to understand it but the conceptualisation and the actuality are not the same
This is not a problem as long as we understand the distinction and do not start equating the map with the territory

All language is an abstraction and the things that it describes are entirely separate entities in and of themselves
Existence is hard to truly describe because we are only an infinitesimal part of it that is merely passing through

A human brain cannot understand the absolute scale of existence because it is simply beyond comprehension
So saying that it is open ended is probably the best way to conceptualise it from our very limited perspective
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:44 pm

Yes...and because an organic brain has to reduce the phenomenon to a level it can process.
A dynamic cosmos - energy - has to be conceptually "frozen" and simplified/generalized into a representation of it - an idea/ideal.
All language is representational art.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:53 pm

Heraclitus
Heraclitus wrote:τὰ ὄντα ἰέναι τε πάντα καὶ μένειν οὐδέν

All is flux, nothing is stationary.
All is in flux - interactive.

Heraclitus wrote:πόλεμος πάντων μὲν πατήρ ἐστι, πάντων δὲ βασιλεύς

War is the father of all, and rules over all.
Εν-Εργο...energy. At work, in the process of. In a state of turmoil, agitation.

There are no innocent in war.
To be alive is an agressive act. To take up space - possibilities - is to deny it to another. An act of appropriation.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:57 pm

The Cult of Innocence is the Western Shrine of "Privilege".

Those who are "Privileged", can do no harm, are never responsible for harm, and always viewed positively, "untouchable". This is the perception and ideal of the Liberal-Left. They want to be the "Chosen Ones", and they want the power of control, allowing in or expelling who they want. This is also what "Power" leads to, as a conclusion, to them. Thus power is a means to an end, that end, is becoming 'untouchable', all positive, no negative. It's obviously a delusion, schizophrenia, as you say. It's an ignorance and intellectual blind-spot, a Neurosis.

I believe this is the reference to modern-day political "sickness", cultural disease, or "western decay". The more delusional the mass of population becomes, a crash becomes inevitable. These factors are being perpetuated and strengthened in children, in the public schooling systems, and the partisan atmosphere. Impartiality is a moot-point. Nobody really cares or wants impartiality. Reason and rationality are luxuries that few can afford.
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Re: Cults of "Innocence"

Postby Aegean » Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:59 pm

To claim innocence is to claim ignorance, and ignorance is not innocence.

To act is to accept the responsibility of your actions - the repercussions and the consequences, whether you're aware or not; whether you've judged accurately and expect them or not.
Intent can be self-deceiving. In fact, it almost always is.
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