astrology

All of this may well be true but:

1] how would one go about demonstrating it?
2] how might it be relevant to the lives that we live?
3] what does it have to do with astrology?

Well, I always say, “whatever works”.

And, with astrology, all one need do is to believe in it. Or, sure, not believe in it but able to convince others to believe in it. It’s like God. The truth about Him need not be relevant if any particular human behaviors are predicated on the belief that He does or does not exist. The consequences are still the same.

It all comes down to a particular war in a particular set of circumstances and who has the greater knowledge of what those circumstances actually are. If the stars and/or God can be used to achieve your objective, then, here, you are willing to be either more or less cynical about it.

Of course defending the means is one thing, defending the ends another thing altogether. Them is where the components of my own argument come into play.

With the prisoner’s dilemma, it depends on who the prisoners are in relationship to the other prisoners. The calculations here are often anything but “analytical”.

And “randomness” with astrology seems particularly problematic. Are the stars and the moons and the planets “in place” because there is some teleological component in the universe that brings all of this about? Or, instead, is it all just embedded in some mysterious “force”…a reality “out there” that makes it so for entirely – largely? – unfathomable reasons?

And then that existential gap between the heavens propelling you to choose as opposed to compelling you to choose. That mysterious instance when “I” makes or breaks a particular outcome.

And, again, the beauty of it all is that, for any particular individual, it doesn’t matter what he or she can or must know about any of this, but what he or she simply believes they know about it.

And, me, I’m willing to keep an open mind. If they are able to demonstrate that what they believe about it is true, it’s got to be a hell of a lot more “comforting and consoling” then what I have come to believe I think I know about what’s left of my own essentially meaningless existence.

In Defense of Astrology
by HILARY CARITO in the Lesley College Public Post

In other words, it goes “deeper” than those who are only out to make a buck on it in the popular media. But, however deep one goes, there is still the part where, through experiments, predictions and replicated results, one is able to demonstrate that there really is “something to it.”

After all, there are those who argue that, in ways other than those defended by astrologers, we are all “at one” with the universe in some manner. Either literally in a universe wholly determined or in some “spiritual” sense – a connection that can only be experienced on the path to enlightenment.

Still, my interest is always focused on the manner in which this can all be explained given the behaviors we choose in our interactions with others from day to day. Whether the font is astrology, religion, nature, philosophy, science, political ideology or something else, how is one able to describe in some detail the manner in which their own beliefs impact the things that they do choose to think, feel, say and do. Why this and not that?

And how do their set of assumptions stack up against my own?

Out in a particular context.

Surrep is right that I get irritated. I get irritated by flat-earthers too. Its so simple to find out the truth, and so much effort is spent on avoiding it. Please, just, let it lie or study it. But… the Shadow. You cant do astrology and run away from yourself at the same time.

One time I showed Sauwelios his progressions. He concluded that it was all far too accurate for comfort and that he didn’t like for life to be written out, and then decided, consciously, to disregard it because he preferred ignorance. He’s honest like that.

I used to be in the habit of reading peoples charts for free, out of interest and philanthropy and what not but its dangerous stuff - especially partial self-knowledge, when the knowledge is profound, can fuck up a psyche very deeply.

Its not that hard to develop a falsification system and prove the validity. Ive proven it in many ways one of which I have performed here, by having people give different dates and me “guessing” the one that is their birth date. It’s science.

Ive realized the reason people don’t investigate it is pain; astrology is the way of attaining the profoundest self-knowledge, and most people would rather die than know themselves in any profound way.

Odin agrees with them; “it is best to be moderately wise.” Of course he doesn’t usually follow the advice he gives to men.

Its not for everyone.

Yes, this reminds me that it is often stated, even by professionals in the relevant fields, that people fear public speaking more than death. I am not sure how they manage to measure this and I am skeptical. But I believe the fear of public speaking is incredibly high precisely because through the eyes and ears of others we fear getting a very strong, uncontrolled glimpse of what we are. Politicians and stand up comics and actors have spend so much time controlling what they show, they are not risking showing their true selves when getting up in front of the crowd. Though all three will go through, in most cases, a hellish transition period.

Of course you cannot turn weaknesses into strengths if you don’t want to notice the weaknesses at all.

We manage impressions and manipulate other people, as much as we can - by hiding things that are facets of us and claiming things that are not true about ourselves - much more as a rule that most of us want to admit or notice at all. If they think I am X, then it is easier for me to think I am X. And this is especially true in relation to not being X. Trying to get other people to think ‘I am not X’ is the root of so much social behavior.

What’s tucked away in the 12th house?
What is Saturn sitting on?
When Pluto transits a natal planet or the ASC or MC, do you want to deny your own Plutonic facets? Well, good luck cause then they come home to roost from the outside.

Anyone whose responses (and responses to criticism) could all be looked as ‘I’m just…’ likely has a huge un-integrated shadow.

Astrology is a bit like LSD I a sense, it will fuck you up in some way. Truth, beheld like that, is just able to fry your ego.
This is why it is used as a weapon. More perhaps than as a healing tool.
A brainwash programme of the Pentagon will first of all go into the natal chart.

I suppose it is a kind of death but one you have to live with.

Many high representative politicians have gone through an extensive mind-moulding neurolinguistic programming trajectory before they attained that MC Hammer attitude.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo[/youtube]

And there are so many of them, in almost everybody.
So much so that each strength is also a thousand weaknesses.

Yes - and still - even when we engage these things knowingly its not going to be easy or even successful necessarily.
Sometimes I do think it is more useful to not know ones own chart.
But then, it is the truth, and it’s just too fascinating.

1] Is the Earth flat?

2] Does the placement and the movement of stars and planets and other celestial bodies impact on our personality at birth? Are they pertinent in making decisions regarding some of the most important events in our life?

Let’s ask the scientists.

Now, in regard to the flat-Earthers, has the truth of their claim been established by science beyond all doubt?

But what of the claims of the astrologers? What have the scientists been able to come up with here in order to demonstrate the veracity of their claims.

And, if some have, link me to them.

As for doing astrology, what does that entail in regard to the decisions that you make over the course of living your life? Cite some examples of what knowledge you have been able to glean from these celestial bodies. And why and how you are convinced that there is no other possible explanation for what did in fact unfold.

Again, I’m not dismissing astrology as necessarily false. After all, an explanation for the very existence of existence itself conjures up all sorts of really, really mysterious possibilities. God being the most common. But mere mortals have also attributed “reality” to such surreal things like solipsism, sim worlds, dream world and worlds inhabited by “oracles”.

that’s a good open-minded point, biggs. it’s along the lines of: if we can’t explain how everything works, we might be wrong about how something in particular works. so for all we know, there might be something to the astrology. ah but here’s the thing. part of that system of how everything works must involve a particular circumstance that makes us unable to know how everything works (cue things like falsifiability, fallacious inductive reasoning, etc.). in that case, we might be right about astrology, but wouldn’t know how, in which case we’d have made a lucky guess. the problem with lucky guesses is minimal in the case of astrology - i mean it’s not the kind of thing where we’d suffer tremendous dangers if we got it wrong… it’s not like sending a shuttle into space. but it does allow charlatans to pretend they know what’s going on with it, and that’s offensive to an honest intellectual. we honest intellectuals don’t like to guess, see, so we don’t bother with shit we can’t be sure of. and we sure as shit don’t say ‘see, i told ya so’ when the stock market crash happens to coincide with the position of mercury.

other than that, i will tell you that astrology is probably true because i happen to have a very powerful chart. if i had a bunch of lame signs and placements instead, i’d tell you it was false. i’m sure you understand.

Most people dont associate astrology with self knowledge because they dont regard it as a serious discipline
But most people also dont want to look into the abyss because they are afraid of what they might see there
They think that psychology or philosophy or religion are ways of understanding the abyss rather than astrology
And so those are the areas they would avoid if they had an irrational fear of self knowledge and not astrology

In Defense of Astrology
by HILARY CARITO in the Lesley College Public Post

Or is the surface all there is?

So, again, we are back to pinning down where to draw line between the information that is fundamentally attributable to these “celestial bodies”, and what “I” am able to do with this information that is not fundamentally attributable to them. Which is why I would need someone who believes in astrology to take me through their day and explain where they themselves draw the line in regard to the particular behaviors they choose. Especially given a context in which those who do not share their own sign choose something entirely different. Finally, in a context in which those behaviors comes into conflict over value judgments.

So, the fact that you have this illness – how much is that is attributable to the position and movement of celestial bodies? How would someone who believed in astrology situate the current COVID-19/coronavirus outbreaks in their frame of mind.

Bingo!

It’s somewhat analogous to those who argue that God made them who and what their are so who are mere mortals to tell them to be otherwise. Or, as with the existence of commandments in most religious scriptures, is there something about the position and movement of heavenly bodies that allows – requires? – believers to choose behaviors that are more acceptable? More likely to play to their own advantage in whatever astrologers conceive the afterlife to be?

archai.org/wp-content/upload … ssue-1.pdf

World Transits 2000–2020 An Overview by Richard Theodore Tarnas (born February 21, 1950) a cultural historian known for his books The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas That Have Shaped Our World View and Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View. In 1968 Tarnas entered Harvard, graduating with an A.B. cum laude in 1972. Tarnas is professor of philosophy and psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and is the founding director of its graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness.

“So, the fact that you have this illness – how much is that is attributable to the position and movement of celestial bodies? How would someone who believed in astrology situate the current COVID-19/coronavirus outbreaks in their frame of mind.”

The virus broke out exactly as the apocalyptic conjunction of Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Pluto the astrologers have been anticipating for years occurred.

As far as personal afflictions with it, of course thats in the personal transits.

The universe, what a character!!

Indeed. If it didn’t exist, we’d have to invent it. After consulting with the stars of course.

You know, however that might work. :wink:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeePsF6GhcQ[/youtube]

Of course he’s just paraphrasing Michel de Nostredame.

Iambigus can you tell my youngest brothers astrological? I made the report. For a chart, thank you!

grabbit.png

What does not “believing” in astrology mean? As that pertains to a particular context that most of us here will be familiar with.

Also, take the “decades of research” there in turn. Scientific research.

In other words, a set of circumstances involving human interaction. There we can focus in turn on the distinction that I make between astrology in the either/or world and astrology in the is/ought world.

Astrology as it relates to the laws of nature, the “in fact” empirical world around us, the logical rules of language, mathematics etc., and astrology as it relates to the components of my own moral philosophy: dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.

Again, I’m less interested in what people think or believe or claim to know about astrology and more in regard to what they are actually able to demonstrate – scientifically, philosophically – that all rational men and women are obligated to believe about it. Linking us, for example, to actual experiences and experiments they themselves have had, have tried or are familiar with.

Also, just out of curiosity, how do you imagine astrology fitting into your own life, given that which is of most importance to me philosophically — morality here and now, immortality there and then.

And go into some detail regarding the behaviors that you chose in a particular context of late. The existential relationship between “I” and the celestial bodies.

Also, also, as noted on another thread:

“It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the universe.” NASA

Where does astrology fit into all of this? Given that 95% of the universe is not even “normal matter”?

Also, also, also, are we going to do this or not? :-k

Astrology Critics Don’t Even Know What They’re Criticizing
The urge to cry ‘pseudoscience!’ may be about something else entirely
Stephanie Georgopulos
Nov 15, 2019

No getting around this of course. Natural cycles explain many things. From the four seasons weatherwise here in Baltimore to the wet and the dry seasons in other parts of the world. Sunspots on the Sun, the shifts in Earth’s magnetic field, ice ages. And so many more: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cycles

And they impact on human interactions in many profound ways. They precipitate consequences that can be both predicted and measured. We can prepare for them.

The question here then is how are the cycles embedded in things that astrologers predict and measure able to be demonstrated as in fact something that all rational men and women are obligated to defend.

Ah, but my “thing” with astrology – as with philosophy, science and religion – shifts the discussion instead to the world of identity, conflicting value judgments and political economy. What can astrologers tell me about the existential interaction between the celestial bodies and the behaviors that I choose on this side of the grave as that becomes embedded in the fate of “I” on the other side of the grave?

Given a particular set of circumstances that the astrologers themselves would be familiar with.

Astrology Critics Don’t Even Know What They’re Criticizing
The urge to cry ‘pseudoscience!’ may be about something else entirely
Stephanie Georgopulos
Nov 15, 2019

Really, I challenge anyone here who subscribes to astrology on any level to intertwine these points into actual experiences from their own lives.

You have acquired this “fluency” in regard to the “language of energy”. How then are the constructed words applicable to behaviors you choose in the either/or world? And, of more importance to me, to the reactions of others who criticize the behaviors that you choose in regard to conflicting goods in the is/ought world.

Note how through astrology in these contexts, you have in fact achieved an “expanded awareness”. Of what exactly? How specifically do the celestial bodies facilitate your acquiring a “clearer picture of who you are”.

And in regard to a particular context in which human behaviors do come into conflict over moral and political value judgments, how might the celestial bodies allow one to acquire a more perfect understanding not only of why we behave as we do but how perhaps we ought to behave as well.