If The European Union Collapses....

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If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon May 14, 2018 4:47 pm

If the European Union collapses politically, socially, and economically, would the United States seek to intervene by absorbing all of Europe? It is no secret that the E.U. is pretty much dominated and defended by the United States military under N.A.T.O where although the headquarters of the E.U. is Brussels it would seem that since the European Union's inception for all intents or purposes is actually controlled out of Washington D.C. The E.U. and Brussels if anything seems to be an extension of Washington D.C. if not also its lap dog on a variety of international or domestic issues. The European Union is almost like an American satellite state that receives its marching orders out of Washington D.C.

For many years in the European region there was worry about all of Europe being taken over by the Soviet Union that is until it collapsed where in many cases throughout history there have been many nations or organizations that have tried to take full control of the whole of Europe. Of course there are many ways to take over and control an area that rely on much less than blatant military aggression. Another way to take over an area or region of the world is financially and economically.

What if the European Union collapsed financially or economically where the United States was forced to bail it out completely? What would stop the United States from just absorbing all of Europe politically through forced annexation?

Perhaps the future of an United States of Europe is one that is absorbed by North America and the United States itself. Is this the underlying goal of the grand international chessboard that is at work?

Whatever happens the United States economy cannot afford a collapse of the European Union as it would completely destroy the financial underpinnings and machine of the United States.

For me if the European Union was to collapse my theory as articulated above isn't that far fetched at all.

A more bigger question arises, if all of that came to be, how would Europeans themselves react?
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon May 14, 2018 5:12 pm

It's interesting that very recently Deutsche Bank of Germany has officially closed shop a majority of its offices and locations within the United States. What does Deutsche Bank know of to make them do this?
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon May 14, 2018 5:17 pm

The Muslim and African migrant invasion of Europe is an interesting development for Europe over the last decade which seemed to really take off with the interventionism in Syria by the United States, what if it was a destabilizing tactic by the American C.I.A. to socially or politically destabilize the whole of Europe? Why would that be so hard to believe in?
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby MagsJ » Mon May 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:A more bigger question arises, if all of that came to be, how would Europeans themselves react?

...perish the thought.

Zero_Sum wrote:It's interesting that very recently Deutsche Bank of Germany has officially closed shop a majority of its offices and locations within the United States. What does Deutsche Bank know of to make them do this?

Lack of funds to sustain premises, post Brexit, perhaps.. profits to be funnelled elsewhere.

Zero_Sum wrote:The Muslim and African migrant invasion of Europe is an interesting development for Europe over the last decade which seemed to really take off with the interventionism in Syria by the United States, what if it was a destabilizing tactic by the American C.I.A. to socially or politically destabilize the whole of Europe? Why would that be so hard to believe in?

Not an impossibility, as the causal spur for the influx is still an unknown..
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Pandora » Tue May 15, 2018 8:53 am

what if it was a destabilizing tactic by the American C.I.A. to socially or politically destabilize the whole of Europe?
Well, it’s possible, but then there is also Turkey. It’s been trying to get into EU for the last 30 years and with no success; and we can’t dismiss the possibility that it still holds secret ambitions of restoring the Ottoman Empire. Influx of Muslim refugees and the consequent Islamificatuon of Europe may also be in Turkey’s interests.
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Pandora » Wed May 16, 2018 1:34 am

A little off topic, but speaking of Turkey, I bet it’s really pissed right now about US recognition of Jerusalem as Capital of Israel and moving of its embassy to Jerusalem. Historically, I think it must be a real sore spot for Turkey. It reminds me of a scene from the Last Emperor/Payitaht Andulhamid (a nationalistic as well as antisemitic and controversial tv show condoned by Erdogam) in which Herzl comes to Andulhamid (the last sultan of Ottoman Empire) and asks him for land in Palestine for the Jews. He talks about the plight of the Jews in Europe and praises the fairness of Ottomans and also offers to pay off all the Ottoman debts if sultan agrees. The Sultan refuses saying the land belongs to his people and not him, and makes an empassionate speech about the people who shed their own blood over it, on and on... basically, that it can happen only over his own dead body and over dead corpses of all the people who fought for it. Herzl reassures that Jews only want to have their own land in a small part of Jerusalem to live in peace, and as part of Ottoman Empire, to which the Sultan points to and asks about the lines above and below the Star of David that Herzl has drawn, and reminds Herzl that they represent the land between Nile and Euphrates. In other words, he really plans on establishing a sovereign Zionist nation state, which the sultan will never allow. Angered by Herzl’s attempt to deceive him, he tells him to get out.
This is just a (conspiratorial) theory, but if you look at the map of the promised land, the war/depopulation in Syria could make a different kind of sense. In either case, because of Turkey’s historical significance, it will have to play a key role in this conflict of interests, and complicating matters even further, Turkey has not exactly been on the best of terms with Europe, as we know.
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed May 16, 2018 7:41 am

The beginning of asymmetrical economic warfare? Economic warfare by proxy?


Over the last three days it gradually dawned on the Germans that Donald Trump's sanctions against Iran are in reality sanctions against Europe, and Germany in particular. The combination of third-party sanctions and changes to US tax laws has led to a situation where a large number of German companies now have an overwhelming interest to shift their business to the US, according to Spiegel Online.

FAZ notes that the helplessness of the German government is becoming increasingly evident, both economically and politically. The paper notes that even Angela Merkel is casting doubt on whether it is possible to maintain the Iran nuclear agreement after Trump's decision.


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"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby MagsJ » Wed May 16, 2018 3:26 pm

‘We will decide who enters our countries!' Hungary and Poland REJECT EU refugee quotas

HUNGARY and Poland have dug in their heels over the European Union’s plans to settle refugees across the bloc and demanded member states have the final say over who enters their countries - not Brussels.

By HARVEY GAVIN
PUBLISHED: 17:47, Tue, May 15, 2018 | UPDATED: 21:16, Tue, May 15, 2018

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/96 ... Morawiecki - check-out the videos in the link, for greater jokes quotient. :lol:

Newly re-elected Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban stood shoulder to shoulder with his Polish counterpart Mateusz Morawiecki to oppose the EU’s migrant quota system, with they branded an assault on national sovereignty.

Both leaders said they had instead opted to help people in Africa the Middle East, or those in need closer to their respective countries, insisting this approach was a more effective long-term solution to the migrant crisis.

EU leaders have agreed to relocate around 160,000 migrants out of a total of more than two million who arrived in Europe since 2015.

The quota system is designed to ease pressure on countries like Italy and Greece which are the point of entry large numbers of migrants arriving from Africa and the Middle East.


Both Mr Orban and Mr Morawiecki were elected on anti-immigration platforms, and their decision to oppose the EU’s plans has put them at odds with Brussels.

The Polish leader said: “Here in Poland, it’s we who decide who will come to Poland and who will not.

“Proposals by the European Union that impose quotas on us hit the very foundations of national sovereignty.”

He reiterated his commitment to help those affected by war or poverty but said Poland’s assistance would take the form of providing aid where the problems are, not accepting refugees


He added: “In this matter, our national sovereignty is fundamental for us.”

Speaking after meeting with the Polish leader, Mr Orban said: “We also have hearts, we do not have stones instead of hearts. We are a Christian people.

“We know what commitments are, what it means to help.

“But we cannot help anyone if we destroy our country in the meantime.”


Mr Orban campaigned on a nationalist, anti-immigration platform and used a fiery pre-election speech in February to paint Hungary as a bastion of Christianity which would defend Europe against “Islamic expansion”.

He told supporters the bloc risks being “overrun” by mass immigration and claimed his government had “prevented the Islamic world from flooding us”.

He went on to single out immigration from Africa as potentially leading to “our worst nightmares coming true”.

His right-wing populist government was responsible for erecting a double razor wire fence on its border in 2015 at the height of the migrant crisis, in what later became a symbol of the anti-migration sentiment in parts of Europe.


Additional reporting by Maria Ortega
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Mark090480 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:08 pm

The EU will collapse at some near point. The average European sees being European as an embarrassment and only something right wing nutters do. They are not proud of their history or who they are. Brexit was a good example, the debate has taken on an air of the Brexitters must be right wing extremists and no other causes for people disliking the EU have been given any air time. e.g. the high level of centralisation and corruption. We are told the UK cannot make it by itself and a lot of fear is pumped into that. While all the time ignoring countries like New Zealand and South Korea.
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed May 16, 2018 5:16 pm

Mark090480 wrote:The EU will collapse at some near point. The average European sees being European as an embarrassment and only something right wing nutters do. They are not proud of their history or who they are. Brexit was a good example, the debate has taken on an air of the Brexitters must be right wing extremists and no other causes for people disliking the EU have been given any air time. e.g. the high level of centralisation and corruption. We are told the UK cannot make it by itself and a lot of fear is pumped into that. While all the time ignoring countries like New Zealand and South Korea.

The E.U. is no different from the Soviet communist block of Russia in past history where the only difference is that since its inception it has served American interests not Russian ones.

The Europeans were so worried about a Russian communist takeover of Europe that they turned their backs away from the United States that had a similar more insidious plan to do the same.

The Russians had communism and the Americans had Operation Gladio.

Europe and Japan since the end of world war II has been the United States life blood of technology or industrialization since we here in the U.S. have outsourced everything we once had. Now if we should either lose our stranglehold over Europe or Japan our American economy's goose is cooked. Japan recently has been very quietly and discreetly been selling all of its United States treasury bonds or U.S. debt holdings.

A new game is emerging and now nobody wants to be friends or political allies with the United States. What is the new game? It's China.
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby MagsJ » Wed May 16, 2018 7:04 pm

The core decision-making EU countries have lost hold of the purse strings, and (lack of) money is (lack of) power.. after-all.

There is a distinct influx in American (and Australian and New Zealand) migrants, in my part of town.. there's no missing them accents.

I don't think even the EU knows what is going to happen to the future of the EU, but I think that past historical alliances from the WWI era specifically, were instrumental in current EU alliances.
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed May 16, 2018 8:11 pm

MagsJ wrote:The core decision-making EU countries have lost hold of the purse strings, and (lack of) money is (lack of) power.. after-all.

There is a distinct influx in American (and Australian and New Zealand) migrants, in my part of town.. there's no missing them accents.

I don't think even the EU knows what is going to happen to the future of the EU, but I think that past historical alliances from the WWI era specifically, were instrumental in current EU alliances.

The E.U. failed experiment will collapse and then thereafter all hell will break loose.....
"The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone."

"I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death."

-Thomas Hobbes-


"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.”― Marquis de Sade

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


"Republicans are red and democrats are blue, neither political party gives a flying fuck about you." - Unknown Origin

“In the architecture of their life some may display Potemkin happiness in view of hiding the dark features of their fair weather relationship, preferring to set up a window dressing of fake satisfaction rather than being rejected as emotional outcasts." Erik Pevernagie
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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby Pandora » Wed May 16, 2018 11:26 pm

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Re: If The European Union Collapses....

Postby MagsJ » Thu May 17, 2018 1:31 pm

Italy has become the favourite to leave the EU as the country's Eurosceptics threatens to destroy the Brussels bloc

A total of 609,000 more people are in employment since Britain voted to leave the EU

The UK workforce has grown to 32.34m - the highest since records began in 1971 according to the Office for National Statistics

More than half a million of these are jobs that have been created in the UK since the referendum in June 2016

Since the start of this year more than 2,000 British jobseekers have found work each day on average

Figures from Eurostat showed that growth in Germany slowed from 0.6% to 0.3% in the 1st quarter

In France growth dropped form 0.7% to 0.3% over the same period according to Eurostat

The Office for National Statistics report also confirmed wages are rising quicker than they have done in the last 3 years

Office for National Statistics says on average pay has risen to £484 a week accounting for 3% more money in the average pocket


Make of that what you will, but yes Zero_Sum.. it's not over for the EU, but it does seem so for the UK, which is probably why right-leaning Italy wants to follow suit with an Itexit.. after seeing those stats.

I forgot to add that my part of town has also seen an influx in Nordic Europeans, as well as the American and Australian/New Zealand influx I previously mentioned... my aren't they tall. :| :oops:
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