Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

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Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:46 pm

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do.

It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.

Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,

called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?

It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of
people who never sinned.

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Exuberant Teleportation » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:54 am

When it comes to small, minor, petty, insignificant tosses of the dice, satan may have all power to trick and determine us into specific actions or, it may turn out for a long period of time, that satan controls almost everything until the mountain shatters, and something unexpected happens that changes everything. And then with extremely long processes, God sees and controls them all the way through. The devil can effect processes a lot, but he doesn't see the ultimate future of where all events take shape. This is why we can fulfill all of our wishes and dreams, because God is more powerful than satan and, in the long run, God can predict everything.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:40 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

I suppose for me it certainly seems like a demiurge is in charge. It is odd to think of a loving God allowing that. And it is odd to think of loving humans putting a demiurge archetype, in their own minds, in charge of their thinking.

Either way, why is consciousness, either divine or human, allowing this. Some belief systems say it is mere confusion.

That doesn't work for me.

There was some reason why conscoiusness, divine or human or both, decided to not notice what is going on and to allow anti-life attitudes to dominate.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:00 pm

Exuberant Teleportation wrote:When it comes to small, minor, petty, insignificant tosses of the dice, satan may have all power to trick and determine us into specific actions or, it may turn out for a long period of time, that satan controls almost everything until the mountain shatters, and something unexpected happens that changes everything. And then with extremely long processes, God sees and controls them all the way through. The devil can effect processes a lot, but he doesn't see the ultimate future of where all events take shape. This is why we can fulfill all of our wishes and dreams, because God is more powerful than satan and, in the long run, God can predict everything.


God knows all yet still created Satan. Why, and why curse the earth with her?

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:02 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

I suppose for me it certainly seems like a demiurge is in charge. It is odd to think of a loving God allowing that. And it is odd to think of loving humans putting a demiurge archetype, in their own minds, in charge of their thinking.

Either way, why is consciousness, either divine or human, allowing this. Some belief systems say it is mere confusion.

That doesn't work for me.

There was some reason why conscoiusness, divine or human or both, decided to not notice what is going on and to allow anti-life attitudes to dominate.


Anti-life?

Does it look like mankind is anti-life when we reproduce the way we have?

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:15 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

I suppose for me it certainly seems like a demiurge is in charge. It is odd to think of a loving God allowing that. And it is odd to think of loving humans putting a demiurge archetype, in their own minds, in charge of their thinking.

Either way, why is consciousness, either divine or human, allowing this. Some belief systems say it is mere confusion.

That doesn't work for me.

There was some reason why conscoiusness, divine or human or both, decided to not notice what is going on and to allow anti-life attitudes to dominate.


Anti-life?

Does it look like mankind is anti-life when we reproduce the way we have?

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DL
You can have babies and still be anti-life. Very few people are completely anti-life. And I think they also don't want to notice how much they dislike about life, even the life inside themselves and others. One can have babies and then see your role as parent to eliminating the emotional beast in the child. That's one anti-life pattern.

If I look at peopel in general I see guilt and shame and control are put in the place of love. So sure, they reach a certain age and they have kids, but it is not coming from loving life, or has anti-life mixed in.

I was also agreeing with you, at least in part. I think that there is a satanic voice running things outside us and then also inside in our minds. People often call it a conscience or their ideals, when it is really an evil voice telling them to not care about others, or with those who are basically loving, telling them to not love themselves. It tends nto to say this openly, using allt he subtlety guilt and implicatoin offer.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:37 pm

Greatest I Am

God knows all yet still created Satan. Why, and why curse the earth with her?



God is a He and Satan is a She? Why is this? Perhaps too many parental issues floating around.

If one truly believes that God knows all, then wouldn't it be beneficial to trust God's wisdom when it came to creating Satan, and really contemplate, reflect and work through that?

I believe none of it.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:25 pm

The answer is that god is so vastly superior and above Earth, we are like a garbage bin to him. Hard catholics and jews share this idea, which is a very ancient idea, that we rather should count our blessings and do our best to please God, as we are not really that high on his list of things to give a shit about.

It's a later christian innovation that God "loves" man and is looking out for him. I mean the older one still does in a way, still made man in his image, but it is as a kind of love he has for some really cool people in a really inferior place. Like characters in City of God. You have the ones you like more and ones you like less, but if you found yourself having to deal with Satan, you might just cast him onto the favelhas.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Artimas » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:59 am

Without identity "Satan," one would not evolve the collective consciousness/subconscious "god", at least not a speedier evolution, there has to be a contrast to be able to learn. A plant that spreads seeds does so through using environment and it uses a ton of seeds for trial and error. That's all it is on our scale, the spreading of idea and evolving self, the ego is temporary and diverse so we may evolve and add on through unique expression.

The proof is the global state, collectively I feel there are more people blinded by the literal sense of thinking and materialism (ego)/identity which has been purposefully engineered culturally for a specific place in society to make it function as it does, which is supposedly the Christian “Satan” to me though I have a different perspective on that archetype.

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Pedro I Rengel

The answer is that god is so vastly superior and above Earth,


I can intuit that a designing God, if one exists at all, is vastly superior. Look at the Universe.

we are like a garbage bin to him.


Is this what you sense of humanity?


Hard catholics and jews share this idea, which is a very ancient idea, that we rather should count our blessings and do our best to please God, as we are not really that high on his list of things to give a shit about.


lol Can this be a "projection" based on what we feel about ourselves and humanity? Do you think that it can have any basis in reality IF God in fact is a personal God?

So pleasing God in this instance - what does it have more to do with - fear or real love and reverence?
How many want to please their God because they believe that otherwise they will burn in a hell created by their God?

It's a later christian innovation that God "loves" man and is looking out for him.


Yes, this God supposedly evolved into a more compassionate and protective one. Did this belief "show up" before or after Auschwitz, before or after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, before or after the 9/ll attacks?


I mean the older one still does in a way, still made man in his image
,

Why would God do that? Ego?


but it is as a kind of love he has for some really cool people in a really inferior place.


Are you saying that God is an "exclusive" kind of God? I would have no problem with that as the forgotten ones and the downtrodden need to have their "day".


You have the ones you like more and ones you like less,


So this is the more human-like, selective God?

but if you found yourself having to deal with Satan, you might just cast him onto the favelhas.


Do you mean the "Falasha"?
https://folkways.si.edu/ethiopia-the-fa ... mithsonian


Still does not make any sense to me.

Just a myth but where would we all be today if Eve had not given into temptation and eaten the fruit and caused Adam to eat the fruit? Of course, the woman is responsible for all of it. :mrgreen:
I wonder how long it would have been before we became entirely bored with that perfect Garden.
Notwithstanding that that miserable Satan tempted Eve - after all, misery needs company - we would have found a way to close the gates of Eden and come into our own.
Just how happy could we have possibly been there with all of that peace and perfection but without the struggle and the finding of our own way.

Would we have rebelled as Satan did?

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?


Is there another option there - like, we OURSELVES?
We know what can happen when we believe that God is speaking to us or that Satan :evilfun: is speaking to us.

The way I look at it, independent thinking is the way to go.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 am

Lol, I know, it's hard to relate to. It''s how people used to think.

Not only oldschool Jews, they and Catholics are just the ones who survived longest with this idea, but all religions used to have this mentality. You could say it cheapens life, I sense that's what you're saying, but in a way it gave life a lot more depth, a lot more vertical existence. And it was less cocky, less pompous.

But yes, on the whole, I prefer how it is now. That's probably what the Greeks did for us, allow us to put human FIRST. Fuck God if he be against us.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:55 am

It was less a judgement on the human than a feeling of powerlessness. The world was so violent and dangerous and lacking in narrative, it could only be a sort of lower level. We felt desperate and at the mercy of the world, and didn't feel a loving Godly presence, and figured at least we'd try to get the Gods on our side as much as possible though, evidently as things are, they don't really think about us much one way or another.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 am

Maybe that's the genious of the Jewish prophets too, Abraham and Moses. Guys having intimate one-to-one interactions with God. That kinda does a weird thing, almost like placing human at the forefront like the Greeks, but in a very different way.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 am

Noah, all those guys.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:58 am

Lol, Lot.

I often wonder to what extent Lot was some moralists of the time highjacking the prophet narrative.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:59 am

But towards the earlier point, think of the Aztecs, and basically every oldschool religion before Hellens and Jews.
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:27 am

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?


The burden is yours alone.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Jakob » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:09 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:
Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?


The burden is yours alone.

https://youtu.be/X9FyQNx8oyU?t=70
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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:15 am

Chuckle.

The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:23 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
I believe none of it.


Neither do I.

Only fools believe in the supernatural.

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:27 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:The answer is that god is so vastly superior and above Earth, we are like a garbage bin to him. Hard catholics and jews share this idea, which is a very ancient idea, that we rather should count our blessings and do our best to please God, as we are not really that high on his list of things to give a shit about.

It's a later christian innovation that God "loves" man and is looking out for him. I mean the older one still does in a way, still made man in his image, but it is as a kind of love he has for some really cool people in a really inferior place. Like characters in City of God. You have the ones you like more and ones you like less, but if you found yourself having to deal with Satan, you might just cast him onto the favelhas.


You think we are loved by a genocidal son murdering god, do you?

Who in hell would even want such a vile God to love them?

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Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:30 pm

Artimas wrote:Without identity "Satan," one would not evolve the collective consciousness/subconscious "god", at least not a speedier evolution, there has to be a contrast to be able to learn. A plant that spreads seeds does so through using environment and it uses a ton of seeds for trial and error. That's all it is on our scale, the spreading of idea and evolving self, the ego is temporary and diverse so we may evolve and add on through unique expression.

The proof is the global state, collectively I feel there are more people blinded by the literal sense of thinking and materialism (ego)/identity which has been purposefully engineered culturally for a specific place in society to make it function as it does, which is supposedly the Christian “Satan” to me though I have a different perspective on that archetype.


A good post and position.

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