Subconscious

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: Subconscious

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:04 am

In still running around doing things to catch up from a week in Orlando. One of the most interesting places to visit was Kennedy Space Center , and it was truly an experience.

Recovering is like surfacing , for me it should have been a slow effort, but too fast . and then reading Your notion of the subconscious was a double whammy.

At this point I have again just time to catch my breath and comment on the duplicity of self, the deep self and the conventional self navigated by the ego.

The no self self, the preself, is a certainty on the very basis of the simple but strong : 'Nothing can come from nothing. There is a nothingness post something and a nothingness before that.

Are they the same?

One is no thing, the other is no thing but maybe something other then a thing.

A thing is something perceivable, but there are other things not perceivable
They are not nothing, even if they are not things.

Perhaps dimensionally they are unprecievable , perhaps in another dimension they are. Or perhaps even on this dimension we just don't have any way to perceive them.

On what level of reality exist what things, and are the levels of reality like bardo states, where our accumulated energy states may aspire to, deservedly or otherwise, or a mix of merit and demerit. All explained as compatibility of different energy levels.

Can we jump levels? Can we fall to the lowest level or land into an unexplained satori?
Are we born enlightened or need.to work for it through millions of incarnations?

Both states are incredibly joyful, and pathetic simultaneously, and the winner has to have lived at the very pit of hell, in order to bounce back.

Some like unstoppable air bubbles rise to the surface, some are laden down with horrendous anchors.

Some very special non beings mist live in redemption, living in simultainity - both: heaven and hell, between being and nothingness, they never live or die,
they are nothing and everything.

They have managed to become only an eternal possibility..

If they realize this possibility, it is given as a gift , but the price is incredibly high, and the rewards: total annihilation
for redemption With the utmost humility, according - affording even the most humiliating pride- in situ, AND only for aesthetic balance, otherwise the beasts of the underworld destroy them.


For clarity, the self is bounded and unbounded in simultainity, and this will to define the self does call the powers of depth, in that painful and wondrous duplicity which defies questions of determinancy , authority and reference
Last edited by Meno_ on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Subconscious

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:55 am

A poem by RS Thomas , that only could have come from the subconscious:

'Looking upon this tree with its quaint pretension
Of holding the earth, a leveret, in its claws, 
Or marking the texture of its living bark, 
A grey sea wrinkled by the winds of years, 
I understand whence this man's body comes, 
In veins and fibres, the bare boughs of bone, 
The trellised thicket, where the heart, that robin, 
Greets with a song the seasons of the blood. 

But where in meadow or mountain shall I match 
The individual accent of the speech 
That is the ear's familiar? To what sun attribute 
The honeyed warmness of his smile? 
To which of the deciduous brood is german 
The angel peeping from the latticed eye? 


Arc: timelessness ago You asked for a description of that mystical tree , which magnetically,
magically turned up in an old ein plain air English landscape which sort of came my way, that I knew, even if I lost the original I would be able to carry about me, ..here the above verse. I included You in ARtemis idea of sub conscious communication.

You may remember? Some day I will photograph the original with the painting.
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Re: Subconscious

Postby Artimas » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:15 pm

"I'm still running around doing things to catch up from a week in Orlando. One of the most interesting places to visit was Kennedy Space Center , and it was truly an experience."

Take your time, I hope to travel someday as well, I do not know what to do with what I think and hope I understand so far, I have no degrees, I have no academic credibility, I have not read many of the books of the men who have talked about the things I talk about but my independent thinking has lead me to these historical figures of wisdom. I have a list of books to read but it is as if I am addicted to the nothingness of which my mind works. So why would anyone wish to believe me in what I say? when I am viewed externally, as only another ego. I don't ask anyone to believe me but instead to look for themselves, so they may discuss with me instead of merely against me for the sake of not wanting an ego to crumble. The books will give me terminology I need when I read them but I must understand on my own before reading them, as to avoid the trap of repitition of rhetoric. "Knowing without understanding", I have began to read jungs work and agree with his book on undiscovered self so far, I am reading "man and his symbols" now.


"Recovering is like surfacing , for me it should have been a slow effort, but too fast . and then reading Your notion of the subconscious was a double whammy."

This is how I feel when waking up from sleep, slammed back into physical reality/identity, like sucked back in from the non physical void of unconsciousness.

"At this point I have again just time to catch my breath and comment on the duplicity of self, the deep self and the conventional self navigated by the ego.

The no self self, the preself, is a certainty on the very basis of the simple but strong : 'Nothing can come from nothing. There is a nothingness post something and a nothingness before that.

Are they the same?"

It's a contrast, to have nothing is to have self, to have everything is to lose self, at least on average. In terms of physical reality. We have all seen the business man who has everything in life, nice material things, they have gained the world but lost the self, I have gained the self and am nothing but a tool to be used for education, I have to switch archetypes or feel another mood to live or experience. We are merely the balance in between both, we are only a step in the universes own evolution from nothing to something of which we may pick a side in which we wish to lean more towards. To be nothing is to have everything available, to be 'something' from the beginning is to limit your possibilities and most often without a hint of understanding of what those possibilities may be for an individual.

I also have chronic anxiety and deem it difficult to be around others for the abundance of being misunderstood and hated or attacked, I try to avoid bias and experiences may possibly create biasedness. If I deem it truly worthy or necessary I invest to experience it however.

If I never make a choice on what I wish to be, I am nothing yet everything, this nothingness leaves all options open to me, to understand without any attachments, no bias. It is how one may speak through the unconscious/subconscious, so it would seem. One seems to have to sacrifice their own life of "living in the moment", to save others by showing them self. This is the avoidance of manifesting as the fool and development of its routine, those who only live in the moment with a lack of understanding, shaped of experience and has attachment and bias unnecessarily so, most of the time at least. Think ancient times of the seers they used to blind early in age to cease a lot of their experiencing, a seer wold have no reason to be biased, in ancient times they were the speakers of the subconscious.

"One is no thing, the other is no thing but maybe something other then a thing."

Everything comes from nothing, everything remains possible, it's like a clean plate of food, you may put spaghetti on it or enchiladas but who wishes to mix the two? First, one must clean the plate back to nothingness before a possibility may manifest as to which an individual may bring about and fully enjoy it for what it is along with the, why, how, when, who. There has to be a blank slate for diversity to manifest so all possibilities remain to discover, the universe is discovering these possibilities of and in itself and me and you are merely one of those things being possible and to the extent of whatever we do, think or feel, the connection to the unconscious and it's subtle/metaphorical symbolism and system of communication, seems to serve as a sort of beckoning to follow it's path of experiencing, for several reasons. Our evolution, it's expansion to experience more and expand further in idea.

I know not for sure what lies before or beyond this universe or how something came from nothing, all I know is it is evolving and something changed, the "word" is the beginning, the first idea, the first reaction of two or more variables.

"A thing is something perceivable, but there are other things not perceivable
They are not nothing, even if they are not things.

Perhaps dimensionally they are unprecievable , perhaps in another dimension they are. Or perhaps even on this dimension we just don't have any way to perceive them."

We may experience them in moments, this is creativity, also psychedelics if one wishes to use them as a tool, for what they truly are, sacred. There is no doubt there are things fully unconscious to us, but I think of it as a path, the more time that passes collectively, the more that becomes conscious, the difficulty is getting other individuals to invest in understanding to further tread the path unknown.


"On what level of reality exist what things, and are the levels of reality like bardo states, where our accumulated energy states may aspire to, deservedly or otherwise, or a mix of merit and demerit. All explained as compatibility of different energy levels.

Can we jump levels? Can we fall to the lowest level or land into an unexplained satori?
Are we born enlightened or need.to work for it through millions of incarnations?"

Perhaps we may have been on a higher level before but we fell, due to what we are facing now, introduced to toxic ideology along with encouraged misunderstanding and perhaps some sort of forced devolution or maybe we truly are the beginning of this continually evolving universe, though it does not feel like such because I feel ancient and humbled.

Enlightenment is a state of mind, one of understanding what is and could be, how, who, why, when, etc. There are further states that have not been named due to us not progressing past this stage due to entrapment of and through mass ignorance or lack of understanding collectively.


"Both states are incredibly joyful, and pathetic simultaneously, and the winner has to have lived at the very pit of hell, in order to bounce back."

There has to be contrast to appreciate one or the other, so one might as well appreciate both for what they are, education, lessons to test character, to define one in the eyes of others, to be apart of their lessons as well.

"Some like unstoppable air bubbles rise to the surface, some are laden down with horrendous anchors."

Yes, it is unfortunate, that is natural selection, nature is tired of solely repetition, it will grow beyond, regardless of man's fear to do such. Nature must maintain the duality to educate and expand itself, man's willful ignorance is how one chooses to die, to be weeded out like a parasite.

"Some very special non beings mist live in redemption, living in simultainity - both: heaven and hell, between being and nothingness, they never live or die,
they are nothing and everything."


They have managed to become only an eternal possibility.."

That is duality, levels, layered, dimensions. It evolves and expands, it all began with chaos and order a system, we are now a trinity, it goes forward, like mathematics, numbers and symbols are it's game, it's language to beckon further, the rabbit hole.

"If they realize this possibility, it is given as a gift , but the price is incredibly high, and the rewards: total annihilation
for redemption With the utmost humility, according - affording even the most humiliating pride- in situ, AND only for aesthetic balance, otherwise the beasts of the underworld destroy them.

For clarity, the self is bounded and unbounded in simultainity, and this will to define the self does call the powers of depth, in that painful and wondrous duplicity which defies questions of determinancy , authority and reference"

Just for me to go out and talk publicly is humiliating for me because of their own humiliation they attempt to project on my understanding due to their lack of. It's humiliating being apart of this species the average "human", it's why the term "god" exists, because we have the potential to be them at minimal(individual) and max(collective) power.

We have a free will (will being, "thought") what is not free, is the execution of that will in an objective reality based on determinism, universal or planetary laws and systems, a physical model of chaos and order. The mind may roam wherever it wishes, they call them disorders, bad drugs, a "dreamer". Is a dream less real than reality? Simply because more people don't understand them? No, since we in reality are a dream of it already.

I hope I am understanding you correctly and may respond accordingly/justly

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Subconscious

Postby Meno_ » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:47 pm

Knowing without understanding", I have began to read jungs work and agree.....

----------'-'''-----
He is the best entry point his distinction between knowing and understanding is minimally maximized, so as to create an allusion to an illusive network of counter balances, very predictive of the coming of cyber learning

As if Leibnitz intended to promote a reintegrative effort, into the primal differentiation , but then maybe that was not HIS intention, but he was likewise prompted by some hidden preoccupation.
------------'
'hope I am understanding you correctly and may respond accordingly/justly'


-------

Yes You are, I take Your closing and Your opening premise in simultainity, so as to enable to view the intervening as a comprehensive deontology, a de-differentiation or a re- integration, not necessarily based on the most inclusive probable set of facts, of the knowledge of them based on understanding.
Last edited by Meno_ on Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Subconscious

Postby Meno_ » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:35 pm

Hope to deal with Your intermediate concern between formal and structural suppositions if or when the book covers are sufficiently judged as having enough transparency ,so as not to suggest a closed book.
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Re: Subconscious

Postby Artimas » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:10 pm

Meno_ wrote:Knowing without understanding", I have began to read jungs work and agree.....

----------'-'''-----
He is the best entry point his distinction between knowing and understanding is minimally maximized, so as to create an allusion to an illusive network of counter balances, very predictive of the coming of cyber learning

As if Leibnitz intended to promote a reintegrative effort, into the primal differentiation , but then maybe that was not HIS intention, but he was likewise prompted by some hidden preoccupation.
------------'
'hope I am understanding you correctly and may respond accordingly/justly'


-------

Yes You are, I take Your closing and Your opening premise in simultainity, so as to enable to view the intervening as a comprehensive deontology, a de-differentiation or a re- integration, not necessarily based on the most inclusive probable set of facts, of the knowledge of them based on understanding.


Ultimately, self is the best method of learning and achieving understanding due to the "lead a horse to water not being able to make them drink it" analogy in terms of diversity in perception. And if you could make them drink it, it would be tyranny, force upon will.

This system is intricately designed and evolving as to prevent such easy loops from being exploited, one must work for what they truly want.

I love reading, it is just key to make sure you keep yourself in an unbiased state of thought/perception when doing so, most are not so they just believe and know rather than develop the tool necessary to think properly and dissect it themselves. They "take your word" for it instead of conscious investigation, when I say "they" I mean the masses, I am sure you are well aware though.

A "god" who deserves worship will be humble enough to reject it; A "god" who demands worship will not be worthy of it.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Artimas
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Re: Subconscious

Postby Meno_ » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:21 pm

Artimas wrote:Artimas -"Ultimately, self is the best method of learning and achieving understanding due to the "lead a horse to water not being able to make them drink it" analogy in terms of diversity in perception. And if you could make them drink it, it would be tyranny, force upon will.

This system is intricately designed and evolving as to prevent such easy loops from being exploited, one must work for what they truly want.

I love reading, it is just key to make sure you keep yourself in an unbiased state of thought/perception when doing so, most are not so they just believe and know rather than develop the tool necessary to think properly and dissect it themselves. They "take your word" for it instead of conscious investigation, when I say "they" I mean the masses, I am sure you are well aware though."



The majority, right , but a minority never really find out, they sort of in a kind of challenging way, are pushed and thrown that way, and if they ever find some sign or understanding along the way, then that's an extra.
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