Is existence enough?

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Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:55 am

I mean is surviving in a fair state of physical and mental health enough reason to live, or do many, most or all of us need a lot more reason to live than that?

And if need a lot more reason to live than that, why, and what else is there?
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:17 am

Take me, I share a two bedroom apartment with my father.
I'm single.
I have a menial job.
I don't have a car.
I have hobbies and interests, but they're all online.
I'm in okay mental, and as far as I know physical health.
Am I fulfilled?
No, but I'm not miserable.
Are most people fulfilled?
I don't think so, some mostly are, many mostly aren't.
I'm not materialistic.
I think I'd like to do more with my life, but I'm not in a hurry to.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:06 am

Yes, survival is sufficient to live, however preferably one should live a meaningful life at least as dictated by the human DNA and without serious negativity to humanity.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:58 pm

You're right, it's better to have some meaning.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Faust » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:28 pm

The meaning is in the narrative, the story and stories of your life. Of course the whole world as you know it provides context, stories that you are told and that you tell about the world. Try to make your life a good story. Try to imagine how the story ends.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:59 pm

Gloominary wrote:I mean is surviving in a fair state of physical and mental health enough reason to live, or do many, most or all of us need a lot more reason to live than that?

And if need a lot more reason to live than that, why, and what else is there?
This is complicated and not universal. For different people there are different answers. It sounds like it mightnot be enough for you, though it is enough to keep you going so far. What else might be activities of people you value? It might be accomplishments. Any goals or things you consider essential and try to get or maintain. I need more than what you wrote and am lucky or stubborn enough to have it, right now anyway.

It depends on one's value and desires, and then eveyrthing that is or might be in the way.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby surreptitious75 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:21 pm

I have no job and no family but I do own my own house
I can survive on very little so do not need much money

My most expensive luxury items are books
I have no car because I walk every where

I am an atheist so dont believe in God or anything supernatural / metaphysical

I think death is no different for humans than any other life form
Religion was invented to over come our irrational fear of death
But if you can rationalise it then you do not need religion at all

I did not exist for almost I4 billion years before my parents decided to create me
And I will not be a conscious being once I die and stay in that state for all of time

Life is therefore an infinitesimal blip between a few billion odd years of non existence and eternal non consciousness
Therefore to accommodate this unavoidable truth I am no longer afraid of death and have not been for five years now

Death is the end of all suffering - physical / mental / existential - so it is nothing to be afraid of especially as it cannot actually be experienced

In the meantime while waiting for Mother Nature and entropy to reach agreement on when exactly my time of shaking off this mortal coil will actually be
I keep myself busy by acquiring knowledge which is my goal in life so read : history / physics / philosophy / math / politics / biology / chemistry / religion

Also fiction that addresses the human condition particularly science fiction but anything really other than fantasy and romance which are not dark enough

I avoid anger and try to be as detached as possible and spend virtually all my time entirely alone which makes me as free as I have ever been
I have a completely uninteresting life but as I have no one to satisfy in any way that makes absolutely no difference at all so no problem there

I know that I am only passing through this life so see no point in holding onto it any more than is absolutely necessary which as one gets older is less and less
I dont do happiness as it cannot be sustained for very long so opt instead for contentment which is less sexy but more effective [ pragmatism over idealism ]

Thats where I am right now and will almost certainly be for the rest of my life with maybe a few minor adaptions added on or taken away over time as usually happens
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:34 pm

it was about the same time that i recognized the problem posed in the OP in its full gravity (approx nine years ago) that i finally began to enjoy life in a different way. this wouldn't make sense unless one understands what being forced to wear a mask of sanity does to the soul. what new powers and privileges it gives. it's not that the problem of life has vanished... but that i simply am not there in that 'problem' any longer.

but good luck to everyone who's struggling with it in their own way.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:27 am

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Ohke Tek » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:38 am

Gloominary wrote:I mean is surviving in a fair state of physical and mental health enough reason to live, or do many, most or all of us need a lot more reason to live than that?

And if need a lot more reason to live than that, why, and what else is there?


Personally Survival is enough to keep me going, but not enough to feel like I'm fulfilled or accomplished anything of significance.

Human beings have evolved a need for meaning as a source of motivation and drive to further better oneself and/or others in their life. Since meaning is subjective, it differs from person to person as well as it could be stronger or weaker. An example is one man could have more than enough meaning to drive him to better himself and/or others around him simply by having a kid, while another man could need a lot more than that and actually could do the opposite (Such as leaving the kid or falling into bad habits).

We've also evolved a need to communicate and help others. Those two things right there supply a lot of meaning for a lot of people, and if neither of those two things have been satisfied at least to a fair amount, living could seem more like a chore, one could become depressed along with other potential mental disorders, and then would need much more motivation to get out of that state of mind, specially if the individual is content with their lifestyle.

For me personally, the meaning of life is survival. With survival comes everything else. It's enough to keep me from suicide, but not enough to feel fulfilled or that I have a meaningful life. I hate feeling content because I know there is much more out there to explore and learn. Maybe I'll find out why we are here, what this place is, can we leave this place we call the universe, or are we trapped here? If I died not even attempting to answer these questions it would be a bad story in my eyes. Plus, we only get one shot at this as far as we know, so why not see what the world is about?

I love learning about ways to prolong life and end the aging disease we all have. I personally realize survival is of the most importance (Even though I suck at it) but what comes from surviving (Potentially) is even bigger. What I've learned in 10 years has changed my thinking drastically since I was a teenager. Perspective is key, learning and understanding how others view a topic, even if you disagree or hate the person, will open your eyes to other possibilities. I was a nihilist for the most part when I was younger, anti-social in that I hated most people, but I really took the time after my first girlfriend to try and see things from another way. Like in the first example of the two different men, I would have immediately called him a POS for leaving his kid when I was younger, but now I would at least try and understand him first. Maybe he has mental problems or something happened to him I couldn't possibly understand. I found a post on here from about 2010 I think where I was saying addiction is a choice and if you can't quit smoking, for example, you simply lack willpower. Now, I smoke tobacco and understand the other side of tobacco addiction way better than before. I never thought it was like this.

Anyways I feel like I'm ranting at this point. It's been 10 years or so since I've talked about philosophy or science or anything mind stimulating so forgive me if this all sounds... stupid or something. :lol: I hope I at least attempted to answer the OP. Oh and I used the word meaning to mean reason or purpose, so if I used it wrong... my bad.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Santiago » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:12 pm

Life is meant to be lived adventurously.
Go to foreign lands, climb mountains, and sail the open seas. Most importantly, venture the landscape of your inner being. Look within yourself, with complete and radical honesty. Discover who you are.

To know yourself is a great adventure.

Summon your best qualities and strive for the ideal of virtue. Do what you can to help out others, to make a better world. Traverse the loftiest mountain, reach the summit and affirm your Olympian selfhood.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:18 pm

All my life I've been a slacker.
Didn't graduate high school.
Lived off my parents for several years afterwards back when they had some money.
Took menial jobs (cashier, cleaner, etcetera).
Didn't work as hard as I could.
Had my first girlfriend at 30.

I'm between 20 and 30000$ in debt.
Didn't get my driver's license till recently.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:36 pm

Well yeah, I don't know how it is down there in the US or wherever you are, but getting a licence here in Canada is like hunting a Mammuth. You gotta go to school for a year. And drop 2 grand. To drive a fucking car.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:41 pm

They don't even pretend. They openly admit it's to make it hard and annoying so because the planet.

Soon enough, we'll need to file for permission to get a plumber.

But now that you have it, maybe drive a cab for a while. The soul breathes and the money ain't terrible.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:42 pm

Some people pay good money for cross country drives.

Shit I'd do if I had a licence.

I keep asking, where can you buy one? People look at me all confused. It's hopeless.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:11 pm

all you, gloom. you'll love it. there's no continuity of plot... just random interactions between disconnected people. one of my favorite b-movies. philosophical too.

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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:38 am

Faust wrote:The meaning is in the narrative, the story and stories of your life. Of course the whole world as you know it provides context, stories that you are told and that you tell about the world. Try to make your life a good story. Try to imagine how the story ends.

That sounds like it could be a worthwhile mental exercise.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:44 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I mean is surviving in a fair state of physical and mental health enough reason to live, or do many, most or all of us need a lot more reason to live than that?

And if need a lot more reason to live than that, why, and what else is there?
This is complicated and not universal. For different people there are different answers. It sounds like it mightnot be enough for you, though it is enough to keep you going so far. What else might be activities of people you value? It might be accomplishments. Any goals or things you consider essential and try to get or maintain. I need more than what you wrote and am lucky or stubborn enough to have it, right now anyway.

It depends on one's value and desires, and then eveyrthing that is or might be in the way.

I think I want a little more out of life, but I'm not willing to work my butt off for it.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:46 pm

promethean75 wrote:it was about the same time that i recognized the problem posed in the OP in its full gravity (approx nine years ago) that i finally began to enjoy life in a different way. this wouldn't make sense unless one understands what being forced to wear a mask of sanity does to the soul. what new powers and privileges it gives. it's not that the problem of life has vanished... but that i simply am not there in that 'problem' any longer.

but good luck to everyone who's struggling with it in their own way.

That's how I've felt most of my life, half present, and half absent.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:47 pm

Ohke Tek wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I mean is surviving in a fair state of physical and mental health enough reason to live, or do many, most or all of us need a lot more reason to live than that?

And if need a lot more reason to live than that, why, and what else is there?


Personally Survival is enough to keep me going, but not enough to feel like I'm fulfilled or accomplished anything of significance.

Human beings have evolved a need for meaning as a source of motivation and drive to further better oneself and/or others in their life. Since meaning is subjective, it differs from person to person as well as it could be stronger or weaker. An example is one man could have more than enough meaning to drive him to better himself and/or others around him simply by having a kid, while another man could need a lot more than that and actually could do the opposite (Such as leaving the kid or falling into bad habits).

We've also evolved a need to communicate and help others. Those two things right there supply a lot of meaning for a lot of people, and if neither of those two things have been satisfied at least to a fair amount, living could seem more like a chore, one could become depressed along with other potential mental disorders, and then would need much more motivation to get out of that state of mind, specially if the individual is content with their lifestyle.

For me personally, the meaning of life is survival. With survival comes everything else. It's enough to keep me from suicide, but not enough to feel fulfilled or that I have a meaningful life. I hate feeling content because I know there is much more out there to explore and learn. Maybe I'll find out why we are here, what this place is, can we leave this place we call the universe, or are we trapped here? If I died not even attempting to answer these questions it would be a bad story in my eyes. Plus, we only get one shot at this as far as we know, so why not see what the world is about?

I love learning about ways to prolong life and end the aging disease we all have. I personally realize survival is of the most importance (Even though I suck at it) but what comes from surviving (Potentially) is even bigger. What I've learned in 10 years has changed my thinking drastically since I was a teenager. Perspective is key, learning and understanding how others view a topic, even if you disagree or hate the person, will open your eyes to other possibilities. I was a nihilist for the most part when I was younger, anti-social in that I hated most people, but I really took the time after my first girlfriend to try and see things from another way. Like in the first example of the two different men, I would have immediately called him a POS for leaving his kid when I was younger, but now I would at least try and understand him first. Maybe he has mental problems or something happened to him I couldn't possibly understand. I found a post on here from about 2010 I think where I was saying addiction is a choice and if you can't quit smoking, for example, you simply lack willpower. Now, I smoke tobacco and understand the other side of tobacco addiction way better than before. I never thought it was like this.

Anyways I feel like I'm ranting at this point. It's been 10 years or so since I've talked about philosophy or science or anything mind stimulating so forgive me if this all sounds... stupid or something. :lol: I hope I at least attempted to answer the OP. Oh and I used the word meaning to mean reason or purpose, so if I used it wrong... my bad.

Interesting thoughts.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:49 pm

Santiago wrote:Life is meant to be lived adventurously.
Go to foreign lands, climb mountains, and sail the open seas. Most importantly, venture the landscape of your inner being. Look within yourself, with complete and radical honesty. Discover who you are.

To know yourself is a great adventure.

Summon your best qualities and strive for the ideal of virtue. Do what you can to help out others, to make a better world. Traverse the loftiest mountain, reach the summit and affirm your Olympian selfhood.

I think life is meant to be lived contemplatively, peacefully, harmoniously, temperately and tranquilly in acceptance, but like Karpel said, there's no single answer to this question.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:55 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Well yeah, I don't know how it is down there in the US or wherever you are, but getting a licence here in Canada is like hunting a Mammuth. You gotta go to school for a year. And drop 2 grand. To drive a fucking car.

I live up in Canada, and yea, modern life is annoying, they make you jump through all these hoops.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:56 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:They don't even pretend. They openly admit it's to make it hard and annoying so because the planet.

Soon enough, we'll need to file for permission to get a plumber.

But now that you have it, maybe drive a cab for a while. The soul breathes and the money ain't terrible.

Well, if it's good for the planet, than it's good I suppose.
We need to leave room for nature.

Yea I'm going to look into driving jobs soon, right now I'm a groundskeeper/janitor.
I don't think cab driver is for me, unless it's in the day time, because I don't want to deal with drunks and junkies (perhaps a courier).
I don't want to be a security guard either, I don't like conflict, confrontation or enforcement, it's nowhere near worth the pay.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:18 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Some people pay good money for cross country drives.

Shit I'd do if I had a licence.

I keep asking, where can you buy one? People look at me all confused. It's hopeless.

Yea, having a license and a car opens up a lot of doors.
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Re: Is existence enough?

Postby Gloominary » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:26 pm

promethean75 wrote:all you, gloom. you'll love it. there's no continuity of plot... just random interactions between disconnected people. one of my favorite b-movies. philosophical too.


That's totally fucking me, thanks for that.
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