How to become Ubermensch?

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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:07 pm

perpetualburn wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:What you have now easily divined from these text is: the Übermensch has much to do with Nietzsche's adoration of Dionysos.


But is the Overman Dionysos? And if not, what differentiates the two?

"Away from God and gods did my will allure me... The beauty of the Superman came unto me as a shadow. Alas my brethren, what are the gods to me now" -tsz (interesting how only God and Superman are capitalized)

"Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which ye should be inoculated?

Lo, I teach you the Superman: he is that lightning, he is that frenzy!"

Yes, good questions.

Are the two identical? I should say not.

Zarathustra is here to teach us the Uebermensch, that is his work.
Multifariousness of nature; easy definitions mean nothing to us.

What is certain is that the Uebermensch was a thing of Nietzsche's future, and that Dionysos is a formula which must apply to the Uebermensch - though not to its teacher!

Its crucial to discern Zarathustra from the object of his own teaching.

What are Gods to him ---- but he doesn't know the gods.
This is not to mean that the Uebermensch does not know them.
Perhaps he knows them as parts of himself, or himself as parts of them?
Certainly, the Uebermensch is a Pagan.
Not some kind of self-contained Apollonian "citizen".

But also:

"I am Dionysus"

"A lightening bolt. Dionysus becomes visible in emerald beauty."

Is the Overman even visible, or is he always veiled in lightning?

I would say: Always veiled in lightning.
Except to his own kind.

On the topic of Brutus, check this out from page 129:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Iruil ... 29&f=false

Nietzsche says that for the Greeks friendship was considered the "highest feeling"... similarly, the ER is his "highest thought"...

Well not similarly, because the ER was not a Greek thought. N did not say that friendship for him was the highest feeling - if he would have felt that, it would have been towards hs posthumous friends. (true Netzscheans of today)

But let us follow this lead deeper into the kernel and learn more about the relation of Dionysos and the Uebermensch.

1050 (M arch-June 1888 )

The word " Dionysian ” means: an urge to unity, a reaching
out beyond personality, the everyday, society, reality, across the
abyss of transitoriness: a passionate-painful overflowing into
darker, fuller, more floating states; an ecstatic affirmation of the
total character of life as that which remains the same, just as
powerful, just as blissful, through all change; the great pantheistic
sharing of joy and sorrow that sanctifies and calls good even
the most terrible and questionable qualities of life; the eternal will
to procreation, to fruitfulness, to recurrence; the feeling of the
necessary unity of creation and destruction.

The world “Apollinian” means: the urge to perfect self-
sufficiency, to the typical “individual,” to all that simplifies, di-
stinguishes, makes strong, clear, unambiguous, typical: freedom
under the law.

The further development of art is as necessarily tied to the
antagonism between these two natural artistic powers as the
further development of man is to that between the sexes. Plenitude
of power and moderation, the highest form of self-affirmation in
a cool, noble, severe beauty: the Apollinianism of the Hellenic will.

This antithesis of the Dionysian and the Apollinian within the
Greek soul is one of the great riddles to which I felt myself
drawn when considering the nature of the Greeks. Fundamentally
I was concerned with nothing except to guess why precisely
Greek Apollinianism had to grow out of a Dionysian subsoil;
why the Dionysian Greek needed to become Apollinian; that is,
to break his will to the terrible, multifarious, uncertain, frightful,
upon a will to measure, to simplicity, to submission to rule and
concept. The immoderate, disorderly Asiatic lies at his roots:
the bravery of the Greek consists in his struggle with his Asiaticism;
beauty is not given to him, as little as is logic or the naturalness
of customs — it is conquered, willed, won by struggle — it is his
victory.

We may thus say, with some liberty, that the RIGHT to Dionysos is an Apollonian ATTAINMENT.

He is not given.

Furthermore, with the Uebermensch in mind, we continue to read of the Highest and Most Illustrious qualities:

1051 ( 1885 )

The highest and most illustrious human joys, in which exist-
ence celebrates its own transfiguration, come, as is reasonable,
only to the rarest and best-constituted men; and even to these
only when they themselves and their ancestors have lived long,
preparatory lives directed to this goal, and not even in the
knowledge of this goal. Then an overflowing wealth of the most
multifarious forces and the most dextrous power of “free willing”
and lordly command dwell amicably together in one man; the
spirit is then as much at home in the senses as the senses are
at home in the spirit; and whatever takes place in the spirit must
enkindle a subtle extraordinary happiness and play in the senses.
And also the other way around!


And:
From that height of joy where man feels himself to be
altogether a deified form and a self-justification of nature, down
to the joy of healthy peasants and healthy half-human animals,
this whole, long, tremendous light and color scale of happiness,
the Greeks, not without the grateful shudder of him who is
initiated into a mystery, not without much caution and pious
silence, called by the divine name: Dionysus . — What do any
latter-day men, the children of a fragmentary, multifarious, sick,
strange age, know of the range of Greek happiness; what could
they know of it! Whence would the slaves of “modem ideas”
derive a right to Dionysian festivals!


Dionysus is a judge ! — Have I been understood?


There can be no doubt that the Greeks sought to interpret
the ultimate mysteries “of the destiny of the soul” and everything
they knew concerning education and purification, above all con-
cerning the immovable order of rank and inequality of value
between man and man, on the basis of their Dionysian experi-
ences: here is the great depth, the great silence, in all matters
Greek — one does not know the Greeks as long as this hidden
subterranean entrance lies blocked.


Although it is not so simple as what Heraclitus proposed, that Dionysos and Hades are one, it does seem to be the case that Dionysos is a child of Hades.
We need only to look at the moment of conception and the moment of birth, and the Mother;
Persephone received the Pomegranate-seeds from Hades on the Spring Equinox as she left the underworld.
Dionysos was born on the Winter Solstice from Demeter, who is mother to Persephone.

Gods and their pregnancies.

Mysterium, workings of time, depth, secrecy, occult, the hidden, brooding (which in Netherlandic is the same word as breeding), labour and seasons, dignity of the Sun and the Earth in terms of each other, progression, evolution as ones TASK;

To wait and to prepare oneself; to await the emergence of
new sources; to prepare oneself in solitude for strange faces and
voices; to wash one’s soul ever cleaner from the marketplace
dust and noise of this age; to overcome everything Christian
through something supra-Christian, and not merely to put it
aside— for the Christian doctrine was the counterdoctrine to the
Dionysian; to rediscover the South in one and to spread out
above one a bright, glittering, mysterious southern sky; to re-
conquer southern health and hidden powerfulness of soul; step
by step to become more comprehensive, more supranational, more
European, more Near Eastern, finally more Greek — for the Greek
was the first great union and synthesis of everything Near Eastern,
and on that account the inception of the European soul, the dis-
covery of our " new world”: whover lives under such imperatives,
who knows what he may not encounter one day? Perhaps — a new
dayl
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:24 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:You need to be a "rare, exotic plant".


This sums it up.

Be exotic plant, my friend.

It is beyond question that Nietzsche would have loved Tupac Shakur


Tupac Shakur is the Ubermensch.

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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby promethean75 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:25 pm

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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:33 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:You need to be a "rare, exotic plant".


This sums it up.

Be exotic plant, my friend.

I am flattered that you would take it as axiomatic that I, FC, am the Uebermensch.
Your soul seems to be characterized by prematurity.

Tupac Shakur is the Ubermensch.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:40 pm

Tupac-Amaru -
You must have learned a great deal so far. And I thank you for initiating such a useful thread.

What can be gathered, always, from moderners, is their desire for things to be instantly resolved.
These clowns here to not even understand the concept of evolution; they must either be all there is to the universe, or the universe must mean nothing at all.

The concept of the Uebermensch stands in stark contrast to this desperate lack of strength - Nietzsche's philosophy as a whole is an agent of evolution, of improvement. To a Nietzschean nothing would be more shamefully childish than to proclaim oneself the Uebermensch. If there is any value to the concept at all, it is the gigantic task that it begs of us - pagans.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:46 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Tupac-Amaru -
You must have learned a great deal so far. And I thank you for initiating such a useful thread.


I might be wrong but I had this impression that Tupac-Amaru is one of those alternative accounts of yours that you've created specifically to start this thread so that you can give us a monologue in disguise. There's no need to do this, I'd say. You could have simply started a thread discussing what it means to be an Ubermensch. An openly fictional dialog is better option too.

On the other hand, there is no doubt in my mind, given what kind of music Nietzsche listened to, that he'd not be much of a fan of Tupac Shakur (and rap music in general) given how lacking in rhythm and melody it is.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:19 pm

I'll make it easy.

The ubermensch is an elite psychopath.

The EP only cares about furthering his (or her) own interests, his own freedom, health, happiness, wealth and power, and he has the smarts, and the strength, both physical, and emotional, to further them tremendously, he doesn't care about other people, except for perhaps his immediate family.


He treats himself as an end, others as means.

While he may lie to others, he's true to himself.

He may help others, but only insofar as he profits from it.

He enjoys the fine things in life, fine art, literature, music, clothes, food, wine and cars.


It doesn't matter what career he has, so long as it's something he enjoys and is good at (it's more about how he approaches it than what it is).

He may be a brain surgeon, a criminal or even a janitor, but whatever he gets into, so long as some unforeseeable accident doesn't befall him, he'll rise to the top or near it.

If he's a janitor, within a decade or two he'll have his own janitorial company with dozens, hundreds or thousands of employees under him, whom he'll have no loyalty to.


EPs are born, you either have talent and tenacity, or you don't.

You can develop them, but you must have a lot to develop to begin with.

Nietzsche didn't give step by step instructions on how to develop them, his only point was that people with them needn't let things like God, democracy, human rights, liberty, equality or nation keep them from furthering their own interests ruthlessly.


A thing that seems to elude some people is, EPs will never tell the people what they are.

For them, it's best the little people think highly of them, that they're God fearing people, champions of democracy, human rights and so on, that their power mostly serves these ends.

Today's EPs wear the emblems of the people, just as they have for centuries, but behind closed doors, with family and other EPs, they take off their masks, and engage in all manner of sordid conversation, and activities, the likes of which the vast majority of people can't imagine.

Only a barbarous elite that doesn't mean to rule for very long, like the sort of elites that ruled during the Greek or European dark ages, or the sort of elites that rule Africa today, reveals to the people exactly who they are, but even sophisticated elites can't help but drop a few hints from time to time.


Closely related to the elite psychopath is the elitist.

The elitist, unlike the psychopath, is sometimes capable of caring for others besides himself (and his immediate family), on some level, but not much about people he considers beneath him, only about people he believes are on his level, and he believes he's on a much higher level than most.

For him, most people are subhuman.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:36 am

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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:20 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:You need to be a "rare, exotic plant".


This sums it up.

Be exotic plant, my friend.

It is beyond question that Nietzsche would have loved Tupac Shakur


Tupac Shakur is the Ubermensch.


I know little of Tupac, but based on this, less it was an act he put on to sell, he was much too chivalrous be an ubermensch, he was more like a Robin Hood, the people's champ.
Champion of women, presumably the poor, the untermensch.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:00 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Tupac-Amaru -
You must have learned a great deal so far. And I thank you for initiating such a useful thread.


I might be wrong but I had this impression that Tupac-Amaru is one of those alternative accounts of yours that you've created specifically to start this thread so that you can give us a monologue in disguise. There's no need to do this, I'd say. You could have simply started a thread discussing what it means to be an Ubermensch. An openly fictional dialog is better option too.

On the other hand, there is no doubt in my mind, given what kind of music Nietzsche listened to, that he'd not be much of a fan of Tupac Shakur (and rap music in general) given how lacking in rhythm and melody it is.

Nah Im speculating Tupac Amaru is my old friend Lohlé, the Brazilian Machine. Only one who ever did could get me to enjoy a piece of duck.

Obviously all men who have lived so far have at most been tendencies possibly belonging to a greater totality of the Uebermensch. The Uebermensch would have things in common with Vladimir Putin, the greatest Russian, as well as with Travis Scott, the greatest American. The vast distance between the two gives you an idea of how much evolution is yet to be laboured before such "strange plants" as Nietzsche envisioned can be born.

Sure by woke standards the Superman would be psychopathic. He would be violent, and he would value everything in his own terms. But, being Dionysian, his heart is as great compared to ours as the human heart is compared to a monkeys; both examples I gave are men with Dionysian hearts. Cold blooded in self-control, but living for far greater things than such a frail thing as a basic selfish character could endure, much less enjoy.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:07 am

If the ubermensch isn't a psychopath, he's at least an elitist, not a mere influential egalitarian.
Unlike the psychopath, the elitist has the capacity to intrinsically value others, but unlike the egalitarian, he doesn't value them evenly.
He values the strongest, most intelligent and sentient the most.
To these people, which he considers himself to be a part of, belong most of the wealth and power, not to the riffraff.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:09 pm

Antithesis wrote:If the ubermensch isn't a psychopath, he's at least an elitist, not a mere influential egalitarian.
Unlike the psychopath, the elitist has the capacity to intrinsically value others, but unlike the egalitarian, he doesn't value them evenly.
He values the strongest, most intelligent and sentient the most.
To these people, which he considers himself to be a part of, belong most of the wealth and power, not to the riffraff.

I agree with all that.

By the way it was kind of depressing marking Travis Scott as the greatest American - Its not like I listen to the dude's music, unfortunately there now is zero American music coming out that I listen to - its all depressive as hell. The last century, America was packed with great individuals, this century, I have only been impressed by Trump, and a bunch of people to do with him. I mentioned Scott because, of all the rap-figures that Ive seen this century, he is most "of one piece", he seems to truly have a powerful heart. The music industry is trying to destroy him now to get another good tragedy to salivate over, and it seems he's probably gonna fall for it.

All this, rap music, Tupac too, is what I see as belonging to a long process of physiological awakening to a more direct state, which Nietzsche describes in some of the quotes I gave earlier, and which is going to have to be part of human evolution. In that vein I see the whole of American music. An awakening to a more physiologically integrated state, and all drug (ab)use that accompanies the music industry is simply part of the chemical process that mankind and his evolution are. Its all an experiment.

As for great American minds, I very much appreciate Philip Meyer, author of "The Son" which is a devastatingly powerful and beautiful novel in which the American spirit is captured like in no other book Ive ever read. Of course Id rank my own philosopher friends very highly, as well. But yesterday I felt like making a point about the distances that yet have to be crossed before we have something like Dionysos in human form. Since Dionysos cant be seen separately of music and intoxication its inevitable that we consider the most intoxicating musical artists. And by that I mean, those who simply have the greatest intoxicating effect on the People. Not so much on me. Dionysos was hardly intoxicating only the philosophers.

I must say though that in as far as boldness of world-shaping actions are concerned, Donald Trump is supreme.
From "AsianGirlsLoveTrump" (the existence of this monicker says enough) : https://www.reddit.com/r/HillaryForPris ... rump_wins/

Praise Kek.
The New Paganism is yet very very very young.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby derleydoo » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:22 pm

http://www.baytallaah.com/bookspdf/78.pdf

Page 123. Chapter Three. It is an enjoyable read for anyone interested in the subject.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:04 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Antithesis wrote:If the ubermensch isn't a psychopath, he's at least an elitist, not a mere influential egalitarian.
Unlike the psychopath, the elitist has the capacity to intrinsically value others, but unlike the egalitarian, he doesn't value them evenly.
He values the strongest, most intelligent and sentient the most.
To these people, which he considers himself to be a part of, belong most of the wealth and power, not to the riffraff.

I agree with all that.

By the way it was kind of depressing marking Travis Scott as the greatest American - Its not like I listen to the dude's music, unfortunately there now is zero American music coming out that I listen to - its all depressive as hell. The last century, America was packed with great individuals, this century, I have only been impressed by Trump, and a bunch of people to do with him. I mentioned Scott because, of all the rap-figures that Ive seen this century, he is most "of one piece", he seems to truly have a powerful heart. The music industry is trying to destroy him now to get another good tragedy to salivate over, and it seems he's probably gonna fall for it.

I'm not into rap, I mostly listen to rock from the 80s, 90s and 00s, a bit of classical, country, electronic and experimental.
Mainstream music at least has never been worse, rock is all but dead, and rap, r&b, pop and country qualitatively peaked decades ago.
It's funny we have greater access to music now than ever before in unrevised history, but the trade off is most of what we produce today is garbage.

All this, rap music, Tupac too, is what I see as belonging to a long process of physiological awakening to a more direct state, which Nietzsche describes in some of the quotes I gave earlier, and which is going to have to be part of human evolution. In that vein I see the whole of American music. An awakening to a more physiologically integrated state, and all drug (ab)use that accompanies the music industry is simply part of the chemical process that mankind and his evolution are. Its all an experiment.

America too peaked decades ago, it's in decline now, it isn't going anywhere but down.
If it doesn't take the rest of the world with it on its way down, we will see Asia, particularly China supersede it, both materially, militarily, and perhaps even culturally.
At the very least it'll be a more multipolar world, America will have to share dominancy.

But yesterday I felt like making a point about the distances that yet have to be crossed before we have something like Dionysos in human form. Since Dionysos cant be seen separately of music and intoxication its inevitable that we consider the most intoxicating musical artists. And by that I mean, those who simply have the greatest intoxicating effect on the People. Not so much on me. Dionysos was hardly intoxicating only the philosophers.

Dionysus has always been with us, all the great artists were manifestations of him, or rather Dionysus was a manifestation of them.

I must say though that in as far as boldness of world-shaping actions are concerned, Donald Trump is supreme.

Trump is an ubermensch, an elitist, not a right (libertarian), nor a leftwing (socialist) egalitarian, altho he makes a lot of promises to the people, he rarely delivers.
He's rich, powerful, pretty smart, in an unrefined sort of way, but not very sentient, I don't think.
He's not a globalist, nor a nationalist, a real globalist would grant amnesty and citizenship to most illegals, a real nationalist would close the borders, but he wants to keep the borders open, without granting amnesty and citizenship, for the cheap labor.
A real globalist would push for world government, either by conquest or consent, a real nationalist would be noninterventionist, but Trump wants to continue playing war games.

From "AsianGirlsLoveTrump" (the existence of this monicker says enough) : https://www.reddit.com/r/HillaryForPris ... rump_wins/

Hillary's not going to prison.
The Trumps, Clintons and Bushs are all in cahoots with the rest of the elite.

Praise Kek.
The New Paganism is yet very very very young.

If paganism means elitism, and polytheism, it never really went away, just occulted itself, first masquerading as Abrahamism, then as right and leftwing egalitarianism.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:19 pm

If the ubermensch isn't a psychopath, he's at least an elitist, not a mere influential egalitarian.
Unlike the psychopath, the elitist has the capacity to intrinsically value others, but unlike the egalitarian, he doesn't value them evenly.
He values the strongest, most intelligent and sentient the most.
To these people, which he considers himself to be a part of, belong most of the wealth and power, not to the riffraff.


i'm feeling like there's a misleading comparison being drawn between 'psychopath' and 'egalitarian' here. a more accurate contrast to begin with would be that of the voluntary egoist and the involuntary egoist. this immediately eliminates the notion of egalitarianism as if it were some genuine, selfless concern for the altruistic well-being of people... as well as the logical extreme at the other end - the psychopath - who would be the opposite of this type. once these two extremes are done away with, you can center the examination on the highest kind of egoist and identify him as an ubermensch.

the reason why 'psychopath' can't qualify here is because an ubermensch would personify both ends of the spectrum - the elitist and egalitarian ethos -, and each would fall under the rubric of his singular egoism. now what makes his actions appear 'psychopathic' is the severity of them... most often the immoral and/or amoral violent stuff. but when such action is done in the service of egalitarian aims, it confuses our typical formula; we are unable to imagine such a thing as a noble criminal, for example.

i mention novatore because in him there is a perfect conversion of both ends of the spectrum in a singular being, and as such he is incommunicable to both the elite and the plebian, neither of which are capable of comprehending the ubermensch.

but this kind of evaluation comes from an anarchist's perspective. the wealthy/bourgeois are already excluded from being ubermenschean simply because they've done no work or suffering. without these, no character can be developed... and certainly not that paradoxical singularity of ego that expresses both extremes of the spectrum after the steady evolution of one's character through periods of incredible struggle. again, the ubermensch must be a personification of a tremendously difficult balance struck between creative and destructive amoral impulses that he values because of their intoxicating effect. for the anarcho-egoist, it is only incidental that his criminal deeds might result in some kind of revolutionary progress, just as it is only incidental that abiding by the law might benefit the power of the oppressors. remember, the anarcho-egoist acts only for himself... and it is only because the intensity, scale and range of the effects of his actions have such excentrifugal forz that we label him 'criminal' or 'hero' after the fact, depending on which side of the spectrum we're on. but this kind of ubermensch belongs to neither side and is disgusted by both the parasite bourgeois elite and the plebian underclasses that have been doing dialectical battle since the beginning of time. a novatore just happens to be passing happily through and is incomprehensible to everyone around him.

yeah but you gotta get that delicate synthesis of man's best and worst qualities in a single person in order to have an ubermensch. trumpf is not an ubermensch, btw. if anything, he's a testament to what has become of the concept in the 21rst century... one which emulates material wealth as the highest virtue and exalts the 'bourgeois toads' as novatore called em. you've got to do something more than get rich selling apartment buildings, man.

a better example would be mao or lenin. when what we like to think of as pathological is expressed in terrifying ways for ends that are in direct contradiction to the means. that's the unique collision that startles our conscience. that's the grand paradox that materializes in an ubermensch. anything short of that comes out of the homeowner's edition of the will to power or some watered down shit ayn rand wrote.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Tab » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:50 pm

Aren't we sorta letting our imaginations run away with us..? Checking out ubermensch/overman images on google we seem to be stuck at the evil nazi superman with a moustache stage.

Or... the gay devil tire saleman.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:57 pm

Yeah and you know what pisses me off about the American 'superman'? The fact that he had no vices. I mean look at that dork Clark Kent. Uh gosh Lois I'm sorry... I didn't mean to spill my coffee on you.

Such a man cannot be super. One would never invite a real ubermensch over for dinner with the family unless the whole family wuz Uber.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:07 pm

promethean75 wrote:Such a man cannot be super. One would never invite a real ubermensch over for dinner with the family unless the whole family wuz Uber.


Of course Hank Reardon had to learn that the hard way. :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:55 pm

I get what you're saying, everyone's selfish, everyone just uses others.
Selfish individuals form selfish collectives only because each individual thinks they'll get something out of it.
The rich form groups; bureaucracies, corporations, militaries, political parties and so on to more affectively use the poor, other rich groups, individuals and natural resources, and the poor form groups; cooperatives, unions, militias, political parties and so forth for the same reasons.
Usually the rich are more organized, but always fewer in number by definition.
And sometimes cultures, ethnicities, races, religions, the sexes and so on war against each other.
The ubermensch then are people possessing qualities (cunning, courage, charisma, conviction, ruthlessness) permitting them to successfully lead such groups to victory.
Yup, there's a ton of truth to that, I don't think it's the whole truth and nothing but, that 100% of people are 100% selfish and amoral 100% of the time, but people are pretty selfish, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, that's just the way it is, what a billion years or so of evolution and the struggle for survival made us to be.
Last edited by Antithesis on Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Tab » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:12 pm

Whenever I play the "which three superpowers" game, I always choose - teleportation, wolverine's regeneration, and mass persuasion. That's world domination right there.

Basically, movement, longevity and charisma.

Dropping movement for I dunno, intelligence and an amazing memory, the most important traits for an overperson are still longevity and charisma. If no-one wants to kill you, you don't ever get assassinated. Ok there will be the odd lone nutcase, but I'd take that over a government sanctioned hit-squad any day of the week.

Humanity's real strength has always been its numbers. The Ubermensch would principly be a unifier.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:15 pm

About Trump, he did more than just, sell apartments.
He became president of the US.
That's no small feat, even for a billionaire, otherwise every billionaire or UHNWI who ever ran for office would've won.
Trump hardly spent any of his own money on his campaign, most of the money he spent he raised.
Furthermore, more of his money came from small donations than Hillary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/campaign-finance/

He's completely full of shit, of course, but the willingness and ability to tell a compelling lie to further his interests is part of what makes the ubermensch, the ubermensch.
Has he said and done some dumb shit?
Not really, so far whatever he's said and done has only alienated himself from half the population at worst, while compensatorily drawing the other half further to him.

I don't like Trump, the only people he cares about are himself, his children and some of his wall street buddies, but I can dislike him, and still acknowledge his talent.
He's a talented bullshit artist, you got to hand it to him, whatever he sets his mind on accomplishing, be it in real estate, reality tv or the presidency, he succeeds.
If his enemies have any sense, they won't underestimate him a 2nd time.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:12 am

Tab wrote:Whenever I play the "which three superpowers" game, I always choose - teleportation, wolverine's regeneration, and mass persuasion. That's world domination right there.

Basically, movement, longevity and charisma.

Dropping movement for I dunno, intelligence and an amazing memory, the most important traits for an overperson are still longevity and charisma. If no-one wants to kill you, you don't ever get assassinated. Ok there will be the odd lone nutcase, but I'd take that over a government sanctioned hit-squad any day of the week.

Humanity's real strength has always been its numbers. The Ubermensch would principly be a unifier.

Fucking A, basically Nightcrawler + Wolverine + Xavier = the ultimate ubermensch.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Antithesis » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:03 am

The only way you're going to beat Trump is with substantive attacks on his policies.
Association fallacies, conspiracy theories or playing gotcha with gaffes he's made isn't going to cut it.
But most, or all democrats aren't substantive people, they're every bit as full of shit as he is.
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby promethean75 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:25 am

Concerning Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Xavier; there's only one ubermensch in the marvel universe...
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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:53 am

Antithesis wrote:The only way you're going to beat Trump is with substantive attacks on his policies.
Association fallacies, conspiracy theories or playing gotcha with gaffes he's made isn't going to cut it.
But most, or all democrats aren't substantive people, they're every bit as full of shit as he is.





He can not be beat at this point, maybe, just may be Bloomberg, if Bloomberg & Co. can buy him out in an aggressive takeover.
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