9 pages from the 1925 lectures on time...(Heidegger)

Well obviously I should be spending my time doing real work, but a passion is a passion (and all that), and I found the first pages of this course to be on the whole enjoyable.

WARNING - TEXTUAL EXPOSITION FOLLOWS - CONTINUE AT YOUR OWN PERIL…

In the first paragraph, Heidegger undertakes his customary practice of defining the convoluted title which he has given to the course. Now this is sometimes not without irony or a touch of humour, as in for instance the introducion to the Beitrage. Which is to say, I can well imagine how funny Herr Heidegger might have been - that is, funny at least to German philosophy students in the 1920’s.

In any case, the title of this course is “Prolegomena to the Phenemenology of History and Nature”. This means, “what must be put forward in the beginning in order to be able to do a phenomenology of history and nature.” It is at the same time an echo and a response to Kant, and his Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics. The two thinkers connect most fundamentally on the concept of time, which forms the subject of this lecture series.

The relation of anticipation and fulfilment in the title is to be understood in a dialogical sense - Heidegger evidences recognizable Hegelian traits in the way he philosophizes - because, amongst other reasons, that is part of what ‘phenomenology’ is for Heidegger. Of course it is many other things, but I find it useful and productive to follow his thinking with a dialogical or ‘platonic’ schematic in mind.

In paragraph two Heidegger draws a distinction between the realms of history and nature, and the sciences by which we generally ‘access’ these realms. With this seemingly innocent distinction, Heidegger is then able to suggest that this thematization may be ‘restrictive’ on the disclosure of their objects. But why would this be the case, and how would we know it was the case? Heidegger suggests that there is a ‘necessary’ reason for this, one which however I will not dwell on here (neither does he). In any case the reason he gives is not an argument to ground his original supposition - we may ignore it for the moment and deal with the content of his description as it stands on its own.

He writes then that; “…it is not certain whether a domain of objects necessarily also gives us the actual area of subject matter out of which the thematic of the sciences is first carved.” The question which Heidegger feels it has become legitimate to ask is whether the science of history actually has the ‘authentic reality’ of history as its object.

In the third paragraph, Heidegger suggests that the practice of phenomenological description is what can ‘disclose’ the ‘reality’ of these domains, before they are objectivized by scientific enquiry. In his words then, this is necessitated because “…reality - nature as well as history - can be reached only by leaping over the sciences to some extent, this prescientific - actually philosophical - disclosure of them becomes what I call a productive logic, an anticipatory disclosure and conceptual penetration of potential domains of objects for the sciences.”

Now what sheds some light on the meaning of this passage is the one that immediately follows. Heidegger likens this procedure to the procedure of the “original logic” put forward by Plato and Aristotle. Logic for Aristotle has no definite subject matter, and is a sense then ‘universal’. This line of thought will form the basis of Heidegger’s understanding of logic as carrying within it an implicit ontology. For him logic is dialogic, dialectic. Phenomenology makes comprehensible the domains of subject matter which are then taken up by scientific treatment, and this means then, by dialogical inflection, that it makes comprehensible what this ‘scientific treatment’ is as well. This process of making comprehensible, understood in its turn, means articulating a logic which is at the same time an ontology.

Now as I said already, Heidegger explains that this has become necessary for a reason which is part of the essence of science itself. Continuing to pass over this assertion, I will give in any case the description of the state of science which Heidegger accompanies it with. He says that “the real crisis is internal to the sciences themselves, wherein their basic relationship to the subject matter which each of them investigates has become questionable.” The key word here, which should be emphasized, is ‘questionable’. Again what it means for Heidegger to ask a ‘question’, can only be understood in dialectical terms. A genuine question is a determinate moment in the continuum of tradition and history - a question which is not genuine has no object, in just the same way that we say the field of astrology has no object.

What is more, Heidegger says (prefiguring Kuhn) that “genuine progress in the sciences occurs only in this field of reflection”. In these moments, “scientific research assumes a philosophical cast”. Now at this point he gives a series of examples designed to support this thesis. One of them is from the subject of physics, where he discusses briefly Einstein’s theory of relativity. I find his description of the essence or ‘meaning’ of this theory to be quite good for the purpose at hand. He writes; “…(it has) no other sense than the tendency to exhibit the original interconnectedness of nature insofar as this is independent of any analysis and inquiry.” The emphasis in this sentence should be placed on ‘original interconnectedness’, and ‘independent of any analysis’. It is independent of analysis because the originary object which is being ‘recovered’ by this ‘revolution’, this ‘crisis’, is seperate from the way in which it has been thematized in scientific discourse up until that point. Or at least, it is this particular way of describing the ‘seperation’ in question which allows for the analogy that Heidegger seeks between Einstein’s revolution and his own explanatory thesis for which it is intended to serve as an instance and example. This is born out when he writes; “Relativity theory is a theory of relativities, a theory of the conditions of access and modes of conception, which are to be arranged so that in this access to nature, in a specific mode of space-time measurement, the invariance of the laws of motion are preserved. Its aim is not relativism but just the opposite.” It exhibits, in other words, a desire to fixate on the reality of the real, the in-itself of nature, which is analogous to what Heidegger seeks with his practice of phenomenology.

Now at this point we arrive at the second half of the introduction, where Heidegger explains what the concept of time has to do with his ‘prolegomena to the phenomenology of history and nature’. He writes; “We shall approach this task of laying out the actual constituents which underlie history and nature, and from which they acquire their being, by way of a history of the concept of time.” This chosen method of course is pursued for the seemingly mundane reason that both history and nature run their course through time, and are understood as such. What this means then is that time “already announces itself as the one ‘index’ for the differentiation and delimitation of domains of being as such.” Heidegger begins therefore by asking, why is this the case, and with what grounds of justification?

Now this focus on time splits out in two directions - the significance of the concept of time, as such, and the ‘history’ of this concept. Heidegger considers analysis of the latter to be not merely an “arbitrary historiological reflection”. What kind of reflection then is it? This is the point at which Heidegger turns to face the question of many a philosopher - especially in the analytic tradition - who wonder what is the point of studying the ‘history’ of philosophy, when conceptual analysis is what the ‘heart’ of philosophy really is. Heidegger argues that we cannot access the phenomenologically ‘pre-theoretical’ conception of time so long as we imagine it is accessible simply by running a ‘survey’ and collecting ‘opinions’ on what time is. We must come from the other direction, he suggests, already knowing what it is we are looking for, as it were, before we will find it - otherwise our methodology is lacking the radicality needed to avoid simply affirming whatever conception of time happens to be prevalent at the present, and then projecting this conception back onto the past, and indeed forward onto the future. The only manner in which we may successfully avoid this, Heidegger asserts, is through the use of phenomenological critique.

So what then is Heidegger’s response to those who believe ‘conceptual analysis’ is sufficient to this ends? he writes; "This attitude makes sense as long as the belief persists that a systematic philosophical discussion is possible in a radical sense without being historiological in its innermost ground." I would suggest, in addition to Heidegger’s own emphasis here, that one emphasize ‘radical’, pursuant to what I just said about the possibility of a suitably radical critique above. Heidegger suggests that the basic question of philosophical research, which is in one swoop phenomenology, entities in their being, the reality of the real, and the authentic history - compels us, requires us, to put aside for a moment the usual distinction between conceptual or ‘systematic’ analysis/knowledge, and that of the historiological variety, as the area of our research precedes, in an ontological sense, this distinction. This area then is neither one nor the other, neither systematic, nor historiological - but is rather phenomenological. We see here then the extent to which phenomenology is absolutely crucial to Heidegger’s endeavor.

Regards,

James

What do you want us to do with this? I’ve read it all (never read the text itself) and I think that I understand it. Are you just skimming for responses or did you have something particular in mind?

Regards

SAITD(sic)

Seems like a load of jibba-jabba to me.

P.S. I love your piano improv James, are you in the music industry or just having fun?

Hmm…Which texts is this coming from? The Beitrage?
i really haven’t cared for earlier Heidegger as prefer his later works (i.ve been translating Besinnung, which is Band 69 of the Complete Works)

No this is ‘take it or leave it’. It was already worth writing by the time I had typed the last sentence. Whatever comes after that is a bonus.

Well, maybe she will be a screamer and bite you when you take her to bed, but you’ll never know unless you give it a go. Perhaps you will even like it. (Forgive the crude analogy - I had to dress it up somehow…)

Just having fun.

No this is not the Beitrage. I don’t really have a preference, though the private monologues shit me.

Regards,

James

Once upon a time, before I became the final version of Charlie, in the story “Flowers for Algernon”, I remember thinking that neither philosophers nor the theorists themselves should write about the meaning of a given theory. A theory is a model which holds (or not) under a given set of assumptions. It is what it is and it is not more than that.

Relativists can not assume that all things are relative any more than Heidegger can assume that because some things are invariant, under these conditions that " It exhibits, in other words, a desire to fixate on the reality of the real, the in-itself of nature”.

Most Physicists in the early 70’s had given up on making Physics model any sort of “Reality”. They simply worked with the math which made the computations come out right under a given set of conditions, and I am partial to that view.

Any way I am very skeptical of popularized interpretations of a given theory even to the extent that they are popularized by the theorists themselves.

I guess that I am left wondering if you think that there is any merit to Heidegger’s view on this particular point?

Well? What does it mean to say ‘it is what it is and is not more than that’? Phenomenology in Heidegger’s understanding is, strictly speaking, not a theory at all. Where you see transparent language, I see metaphysical distinctions, like that between ‘theory’ and ‘practice’. To know, then, where and where not a scientist or philosopher ‘should’ ask certain questions, or certain types of questions…; well I wonder/worry whether this is in some cases a kind of willful ignorance rather than prudent common sense.

Well I read this as a comment on Einstein’s mindset as much as anything else, to the extent that it was characteristic of the conceptual self-understanding of the natural sciences at that time. But remember, again, phenomenology is ‘not a theory’. Heidegger would say, for instance - ‘you see the chair, not your ‘representation’ of the chair.’ The “reality of the real” may also be read then, perhaps, as a kind of ‘Aristotlelean realism’ of sorts - at least to my eye there seems to be a superficial resemblance to contemporary philosophical accounts of, say, de re reference in modal logic. (which is about the only example I am even remotely familiar with, I’m afraid.) This is the tenuous link, it seems to me, between the ‘hard’ analytic varieties of realism, and the phenomological tradition. Otherwise why the hell else would John Searle read Husserl? :slight_smile:

Well this charge could probably be made against Carnap, but against Heidegger? I am not sure. Perhaps. Unfortunately this is not really a question that I have a ready made answer to at this time.

Regards,

James

Firstly, can we trust this man?

Secondly -
“In the third paragraph, Heidegger suggests that the practice of phenomenological description is what can ‘disclose’ the ‘reality’ of these domains, before they are objectivized by scientific enquiry.”

‘before’ - a temporal metaphor or not? Given that much of science is already structured on the basis of past objectivised experiences and given that we cannot ‘reset’ this, what hope does Heidegger have the phenomenology will eventually precede scientific enquiry? How can something become prior, as it were?

What have you got to lose? You ought to be more careful. Phenomenologists can smell fear. :slight_smile:

Well if there is any place where Heidegger is going to get clear about his understanding of temporality, then it is in this lecture course. Heidegger’s phenomenology is also a hermeneutics, remember, which means a kind of reading of tradition presupposing that it has meaning or meaning-potential. This presupposition belongs to Derrida as well, which means that if you are making a Derridean criticism of Heidegger, concerning his understanding of time, then the distinction between Derrida and Heidegger which makes this criticism meaningful, must be located somewhere else then in relation to Heidegger’s claim to have access to the ‘reality of the real’, via a phenomenological hermeneutics. On some level, Derrida makes this claim as well - or at least I would argue. This is also Habermas’ argument, which he uses to seperate Derrida from Foucault.

On another level, Heidegger is rehearsing his argument from Being and Time, that Dasein already ‘knows’ being on some level, and can work back from this position to unfold the ‘reality of the real’. Perhaps this is the level at which your (Derridean) criticism might function. In any case, temporal metaphors or not, I agree that the claims of phenomenology are problematic. But I would still distinguish between superficial criticisms of a false hope, and accurate ones. If you want to understand the complexity of Heidegger’s failure, you will have to understand the complexity of his attempt - which means tracing phenomenology back through Husserl to Hegel, and then all the way back to Plato, the ‘original’ dialectician. Heidegger’s misunderstanding of Plato is systematically repeated throughout his entire understanding of philosophy. If you understand this, then it becomes a kind of formula for reading Heidegger against the grain, in the same way that I read Foucault against the grain - as I think I mentioned in a previous post. Again, Habermas does the same thing, almost word for word. It is good sometimes to have someone who is like you but better, to bounce off - if you know what I mean.

In any case, I cannot tell you what Heidegger says in this book to answer this criticism. I can tell you though that he is aware of it, on some level; but that is not quite the same thing. However it is not nothing. Heidegger is nothing if not wily - the consummate rhetorician if I ever I saw one. But where perhaps you see the need to ask “Can we trust this man?”, I see something more innocent. Which is not to say that the serious question should be discarded, but only that part of the satisfaction of the journey is not the anticipation of reward, but the process of arriving there. Or something like that. (Forgive me the worn out metaphor.)

But back to what you were saying.

Perhaps you should listen to Rickert’s criticism, paraphrased by Heidegger; that “the concept of intentionality is scientifically useless and phenomenology, which employs it, is fraught with metaphysical presuppositions and therefore not at all based upon immediate data.” Heidegger goes on to quote Rickert;

‘Especially where the concept of ‘intentionality’, Scholastic in origin but mediated by Brentano, plays a role, there the concept of the immediate still seems to be left largely unclarified and the train of thought of most phenomenologists seems steeped in traditional metaphysical dogmas, which make it impossible for its adherents to see impartially what is before their very eyes.’

One indicative description of Heidegger’s aim is this; "…demand that we set aside our prejudices, learn to see directly and simply and to abide by what we see without asking, out of curiousity, what we can do with it. In the face of the most obvious of matters, the very fact of the matter is the most difficult thing we may hope to attain, because man’s element of existence is the artificial and mendacious where he is always already cajoled by others.

Regards,

James

Dear James II,

In Royle’s book ‘Spectral Metaphors’ (a book which doesn’t exist but is nonetheless utterly relevant to this discussion) Royle argues that all temporal metaphors are at base spectral, something which one must be able to see and to see through to be able to understand them. When one calls up the past one offers merely a trace (don’t dwell on this word, - no, don’t…) rather than an event, when one speculates about the future one is talking purely in sugar. When one talks of the present… well, I’ll leave you to dwell on that word.

In Royle’s book ‘After Derrida’ (which very much does exist, but isn’t particularly relevant to this discussion) he explains that the title works with at least 3 senses of ‘after’, “(1) ‘after’ Derrida as ‘later in time than’ Derrida’; (2) ‘after Derrida’ as ‘in the manner of’, ‘in agreement with’, ‘in honour of’ and even ‘in imitation of’ Derrida… (3) ‘after’ Derrida in the sense of ‘going in search of’ Derrida.”

This may give you a hint as to my view of the terms on which I suggested you do and do not dwell.

It’s also good for small countries to be invaded on a regular basis… sorry, I’m sure that that is totally irrelevant.

It is indeed good to learn from similar thinkers. It’s better to learn from dissimilar thinkers…

Because it is a metaphor, a phantom if you will…

I’ll offer you another question - does this not sound like almost every ‘description of aims’ laid down by every philosopher in ‘the’ tradition since Plato?

You will have noticed by now that I’m offering you a intentionally unstable reply. No offence, mainly because I find this to be an interesting subject, but I did ask you a much simpler question than the reply that you composed. Please continue your commentary (since you obviously don’t want to get into a direct argument, which is fine) because I will be reading…

Is it? On what do you base this assertion?
Is everything a metaphor? Or do you want to say ‘[size=75]meta[/size][size=200]X[/size][size=75]phor[/size]’? (this is the closest I could get to putting it ‘under erasure’…)

I do not like this answer to the question - this way of describing intentionality (and philosophical concepts in general). It too easily implies that there is a ‘literal’ reality which we have merely failed to capture in this particular instance. But this is not what you are saying.

Haha… yes. I’ll pay that.

Hardly. On the contrary my reply does not do justice to the complexity of the question.

Or else calling the one ‘simple’ and the other ‘complex’ is misleading.

In order to have a direct argument, we first need to establish a common ground. But if you wanna take a shot at it, be my guest.

:slight_smile:

Regards,

James

Um…I think Sartre is right, and stuff. He was an, um, phonomanilisticist too, I think.

:laughing:

Hi James

As I view it, an accepted theory is a set of conditions e.g. A, C, D, E and a set of conclusions C1,C2,C3,C5 which have been verified by experiment to an acceptable tolerance. When people write either a popular analysis of the theory, or a meta analysis (about the theory) generally they enlarge the conditions, for example including all the letters A through E or they enlarge the conclusions for example to C1 through C5. If they are writing a meta analysis then they are witting about something altogether different. In each case there is no reason to believe the conclusions reached. The only way to be certain of a meaningful conclusion is to have a restatement of the original theory in detail.

From my perspective Heidegger on this particular point has drawn an unwarranted conclusion from the Theory of Relativity.

I did feel a little uncomfortable being presented with the limited choice of philosophical perspectives. I don’t think that this is a case of being for Heidegger or for someone else. I am simply trying to pursue this from a logical point of view.

Thanks - Ed

P.S. I think I’m a failed logician.

Ed3

I am not really sure how to evaluate your points, being that they seem to restate your original post rather than engage with my response. Which is ok - probably means that you didn’t really get what I was saying either. So perhaps a bit of elementary clarification is in order.

Is this a meta-theoretical analysis of what a theory is? If not, then how do you distinguish between what you are doing, and what Heidegger is doing? Furthermore, what reasons do I have to accept your description, given that, “in each case there is no reason to believe the conclusion reached”?

What are you referring to in the first sentence?

Regards,

James

Hi James:

I think that you are right about our misunderstandings. I would like to proceed in any case because I think I might learn something.

To address your first point I would characterize my statement: “As I view it, an accepted theory is a set of conditions e.g. A, C, D, E and a set of conclusions C1,C2,C3,C5 which have been verified by experiment to an acceptable tolerance” as a definition of a scientific theory.

Since I have started questioning my own responses, I have come up with other definitions:

Definition: A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers.
Source: wilstar.com/theories.htm

Definition: In physics, the term theory is generally used for a mathematical framework derived from a small set of basic principles, capable of producing experimental predictions for a given category of physical systems.
Source: Wikipedia

Definition: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; “theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses”; “true in fact and theory”
Source: thefreedictionary.com/scientific+theory

I think that my definition is in keeping with standard tradition. You may see something I don’t.

You asked how do I distinguish between what I am doing and what Heidegger is doing? I believed that Heidegger had drawn an improper conclusion from Einstein’s theory of Relativity, and I tried in general to warn about such activities. (In my original response this order is reversed).

You wrote: ‘Furthermore, what reasons do I have to accept your description, given that, “in each case there is no reason to believe the conclusion reached”?’

I am afraid that I am too close to my opinion to be objective. Is it not obvious that changing a predicate invalidates the previous conclusion? How can you add conclusions that have not been verified? If you completely change the subject we will have no basis to make any conclusions.

The final comment pertained to your response: “Well this charge could probably be made against Carnap, but against Heidegger?” Why can we not just deal with the subject at hand?

I am fearful that we are talking on such different levels, that we may not be able to communicate, and I am very disappointed. It is probably my fault.

Thanks Ed

Ed3

Ok Ed, I’m not sure if I can help you with this. I don’t speak enough of your language to see how you are thinking about this, and there seems to be little common ground between us. But I will give it a shot.

What is the improper conclusion?

Yes, in a strict logical sense. But if you have not reconstructed the argument properly to begin with, or else there is no argument, or else the argument is spread out across several chapters - well then, it is better to suspend judgement until you can see how Heidegger’s comments on this or that particular thing fit into his overall framework. You may read it using various logical and argumentative forms of evaluation, but using ‘scientific’ forms misses the point entirely.

Well you could add deductively, for instance. This is not the point, but I sense that your criterion is too narrow here in any case.

If I were more familiar with philosophy of science, I might have a better response to give here.

Perplexed,

James

alright james 2. there are some things i disagree with. i just read Jacob Kein’s Greek Mathematical Thought and the Origin of Algebra, which by the way is pretty good, and i disagree with what is being said about plato and aristotle’s original conceptions of logic. i wrote about this kind of extensively and contributed this writing in the highly moderated forum, where ever that went.

you wrote:

Klein writes:

but maybe i didn’t get you right. which is likely.

in terms of the crisis of science i find that Husserl’s rationale tends to be more persuasive. Science is in crisis because it doesn’t get the a priori Subjective. Relativity and the interconnectedness of nature may be better understood is we understood subjectivity as a priori.

hoping for comments.
[/quote]

Haha… well whilst I cannot consult the heavy mod forum (alas my essay on identity may have been relevant here, or in your other thread on ‘relation’…), I can consult Aristotle’s Rhetoric directly. For instance this passage;

I am not sure what application the paragraph of Klein you quoted has to what I said. I am not familiar with him, nor the Metaphysics. But just looking at his analysis it seems a little sloppy to me, or at least inconclusive. But perhaps I have just not misunderstood it.

Furthermore I have not read Heidegger’s lecture courses that deal explicitly with Aristotle. In any case though, consider what Klein wrote, placed besides these select passages from Heidegger’s analysis.

This then brings us to what you said about Husserl. Perhaps it would be useful for you to read the lecture course.

Regards,

James

james 2

but what does “having no definite subject matter” have to do with “being universal”?