A call to criticism

So, I’m investigating a source, and one of the things I know about the bunch around here is that there is no shortage of ability to tear apart and point out aspects of a source that are contested.
(I have my own opinions as well, but I am interested in more than just my own opinion…otherwise I wouldn’t be on ILP right?)

As such, I’m interested to see what everyone here has to say about this group’s claims and charges.

Here’s the link:
ebionite.org/

Of interest:
The Ebionite Manifesto (on the main page)

ebionite.org/faq.htm

ebionite.org/history.htm

ebionite.org/fakes.htm

ebionite.org/us.htm

ebionite.org/ebbiog.htm

ebionite.org/ancwt.htm

ebionite.org/pauls_hatred_of_israel_1.htm

Material from their older site before they became ebionite.org
ebionite.tripod.com/318/jgintro.pdf

ebionite.tripod.com/orthoadopt.pdf

I’ve been interested in the Ebionites for many years. I believe their attitude toward Jesus and Paul are much more rational than those of “Christians”. Of course, they still adhere to divine revelations for which I see no rational justification. I just see them as more rational than Christians and certainly more so than Muslims.

Ebionite.org, is the specific interest, not exactly just ebionites in general; of which there are many forms claiming many things.

This group in specific is rather strong in it’s Judaic faith, but without the Talmud, and with holding Yeshua as their rebe.

So, I’m not so much interested in Ebnionitism in general, which I am more in agreement with you there painful, but this specific sect(?) of Ebionitism that is found established on Ebionite.org.

I saw this in their front page.

"YHWH is Our God, YHWH Alone. "

I think it shows their mentality.
If one’s mind is filled by something, s/he doesn’t see anything else, naturally, and thus don’t even think of other possibilities.
So, in their minds, there are other Gods and they are busy trying to overrate a God among many as a single possibility (in this case other GODs, for example).

They don’t know, but they are lying to themselves (or they are self-contradicting if someone prefers), by their very claim of monotheistic belief because they are peeking at other Gods and they don’t even fully worship/concentrate on their God.

So, I think it’s just another one of silly religions, a system to deceive oneself so that one can think s/he relates/belongs to something Absolute/Infinite.

In their FAQ:
[i]What is the goal of the Ebionites?

We have several related goals:

* The promotion of monotheistic Yahwism (Judaism).
* The promotion of this to gentiles
* The restoration of the good name of Yahshua ben Yosef as a righteous Jew
* This necessitates the deconstruction of the mythological "Jesus" of Christianity, disproving that Christianity is a biblically related religion.
* Social justice based on honesty, and love in the context of the Bible (Tanak).

[/i]

Well, the base of their belief about the monotheistic nature of their local God isn’t so honest.
Yet they want to control others (indicated by the desire for “social justice”) based on “honesty”.

Overrating maniacs like many of monotheists would never be totally “honest” (nor rational) as long as they cling to their religion.

So, it’s just one of many monotheistic sect among many, to me.

Thank you for the good critique Nah.
Your perspective, and the like, are specifically of interest to me for these types of examinations.

You are welcome.

I think Jewish people tend to have general overrating nature a bit (or a lot) more than some other tribes.

And people of big nations (like US, China, etc) may also have the general overrating tendencies, too.

Religion is a hell of overrating system.
So, it’s normal to start overrating their God, to begin with. :smiley:

I know you made this thread because of discussion about the blood drinking ritual.

Personally, I don’t care much about any ritual.
You need the help of ritual when your consciousness is so fixated and thus you need some sort of triggering mechanism to enter into different perspective.

From the practical mystic/magic point of view, awareness manipulation and perspective is all you need.
Sharing real (or symbolic) blood (and/or) meet chunk isn’t needed to communicate with others if we share same (well, similar) conscious state.

In case of the origin of Christian blood/meet sharing ritual, I’ve seen a theory saying that it came from Tibet.
But we may never know what really happened 2000 years ago (or even 2 seconds ago).

Additional material from their site:
Ebionites are a type of “Jew,” but more specifically Ebionites are a type of Yahwist, embracing the ancient covenant of circumcision and covenant “Law.”

They love genital mutilation …

Maybe they needed it long long time before because they were spending filthy life style and their penis can get infected and worse.
Maybe their tribe had the gene making the poor foreskin to be too long, too thick, whatever and it’s possible that genital mutilation was more or less desirable at that time.
But I’m not sure at all if it’s still so, today, with increased hygiene standard among many of formally barbarian (although they love to pretend being civilized) tribes.

One thing that pops out to me on glancing at the site, is that they claim that they alone have the truth and all others are false. That is a defining characteristic of a divisive sect.

The founder is actually a prior baptist from Tennessee.

Oddly enough…I didn’t.
It was ironic to me that the Ebionite movement appeared in there because I’ve been researching modern-day Ebionitism for a few weeks now.
This group’s aim seemed more noteworthy than many others that seemed more like Gnostics than Ebionitism.

Yeah…I still haven’t found anything on their descriptions that really satisfies as a faith-justification for circumcision actually.
They actually state that if you are a convert, that (even if you are circumcised) you must have a needle prick your penis as a symbol of the real circumcision if you had been a member originally.

Now…to me…this concept is even more odd than most of their others because circumcision is done when the age is incredibly young, even in Judaic practices…so the idea of just doing it for the pain of it is rather odd.
I’m still trying to figure out exactly the point of that if it’s not just pain.

They do seem a bit negative don’t they…as well as defensive.
There seems to be allot of “them” and “us” talk.

That’s kind of always bothersome to see in a religious tone.