Let’s have a little chat about fascism siatd.
You start out my listing off all of the good points?
I know I’m not SIATD, but I thought I would throw in that Fascist have really cool uniforms. That’s a good point, isn’t it?
We should ignore the success rate and life span of any fascism in history, and look at the very shortest of term ideas, such as uniforms, yes.
Military uniforms can turn average men into honorable, admirable, respectable, dead-sexy killers/life-savers. Why? Well, now he is serving the government, and making The-Man powerful. Gun’s are so much better then normality and simplicity.
Energy spent on internal conflict and competition could have been spent on a mutual goal, but that would require something other then fear and arrogance… so that would be useless in comparison.
Anyway, I thought that someone was at the door of admiration of some sort of theoretical fascism that was properly applied.
People who were smarter then others, deserve to have the power, and the stupid people don’t deserve to have the power, right?
Well, people are smarter then others mainly because of education and propery application of knowledge. Good, balanced reason-ability is more importent then all knowledge, because it is the gage of all use/misuse.
Though most weak and stupid are potentially strong and smart, hating them instead of improving them – is far simpler, and it is more easy to stick to a simple notion of superior defeating inferior.
Dan,
While I appreciate the attempt to induce me to write about this (you know as well as I do that I can make fascism seem more libertinous than democracy) I do wonder at your motives.
I’ll show you mine if you show me yours - you tell me why I should argue for fascism (despite not being a fascist) and I’ll happily oblige…
I can’t really think of any good reason to support or argue for fascism right now.
Fascism - we breed dogs to fit our ideas of aethetics, we genetically manipulate plants to make them ‘better’ - facism attempts to do the same with humans. It appoints a specific template or phenotype as ‘perfect’ and works toward it, to the detriment of others. Is the dream of a master race so morally defunct…? If the implementation of that dream can be done painlessly…?
Already some manipulation of the foetal genome can be safely undertaken. Extrapolate a time when you can choose ‘Aryan Ãœbermensche’ from a drop-down menu, pre-implantation… Would it be wrong - or freedom of choice…? What parent would not wish their child the best physique, the best functioning brain, the most resistant immune-system…? How is plastic surgery anything but media fascism…?
Was Hitler’s only monstrousity his means…? Was the end so wrong…?
[size=75](Please note - major devil’s advocate mode operating.)[/size]
Is this your reason for asking me? Give me a reason and I’ll provide you with arguments.
As I said, Nazism is the logical end of humanism. And of course the ‘end’ wasn’t too bad, they stole it from Nietzsche…
Tabula Rasa, maybe you already realize that things only become unhealthy once misapplied?
Yes, Hitler’s monstrousity was his means, but Nazis also had their way with certain occult theories [killed Jews for no real reason, as an example].
And what would fascism be without the hate? A strong will for refinement and reaching for superiority?
Hitler’s means where moronic, but I’m fully in support of genetically engineering the human system.
You teaching me would be a gift. My only reason, is my lack of understanding in almost every field of life.
You don’t have to provide me with any arguments if you don’t want to, but if you did, it would probably classify as an act of mental charity.
mussolini said fascism was the merger of corporate and state power.
i thought hitler merely used hatred of the jews and nationalism to blind the emotionally wound up germans. whatever he said about the one great race was just regular old fashioned nationalism with an emphasis on genetics and eugenics.
i thought the reason why the war started was so hitler could destroy the bolsheviks, the communists that were the antithesis of any system that can be described as the merger of corporate and state power.
the reason why ww2 started was the same exact one as the reason why america ever did anything in latin america or vietnam, to stop communism and promote "merger of corporate and state power"ism, or fascism, as mussolini calls it.
is fascism really the exact same thing as social darwinism, like you guys seem to think? why make up a new word if its just social darwinism? what was mussolini talking about if not the definiton of fascism? “fascism is the merger of corporate and state power” is what he said.
Want to see fascism at work. Just turn on your tv to see
what bushco and friends did today.
Kropotkin
what if we dont have a T.V.?
Actually, no we don’t. So lets see it, show us just how great of a sophist you are.
That sounds like crap, just like the crapy present forms of communism. So much crap…
But maybe it’s not bad at all?
Maybe it all only happens because it can?
yeah fascism sucks. any system where selfish non-altruistic people arent in charge is going to really suck shit. including the “communism” weve seen in the “union” of soviet “socialist” “republics”. none of those things actually existed in the ussr, and communism never existed anywhere, and the pseudo communism of cuba has never been seen without horrifying crippling sanctions. so we really know very little about it or its potential.
but anyway yes fascism is quite crappy. the stated goal of a corporation is one thing, one thing only: profit. if you dont make profit, your shareholders sell their stock and the price plummets and the owners who have to hold on to their stock because it makes up a huge part of their wealth, they are fucked. so those owners MUST make profit at all costs. if they ever do something humanitarian, its so that they can falsely give the consumers the impression that they slightly care about something besides profits, and then those consumers will give them more profit because they believe the lie.
anyway, thats perfectly fine. free market capitalism is just fine. its just that i think its extremely amazingly retarded to trust these corporations to make sure that inequality doesnt exist. for one thing, the inequality benefits the corporations. a flooded low-skill labor market means that the price of labor is lower, which means the corporation makes more profit. secondly, even if the corporation wanted to fix inequality, they would have to spend their own money to do it, which is a direct contradiction of their stated goal, which is to make profit.
it makes absolutely zero sense to trust a corporation to ensure equality. if you dont think the government should ensure equality (equal freedom to choose happiness or success, whatever the anti-socialists in the capitalism thread say it is), get the fuck out of america.
laissez faire capitalism will result in the same thing as hitlers fascism. the rich will do everything they can to become even more rich, which will probably include creating a military, screwing over poor people, inciting nationalism and hatred of foreigners, spewing propaganda all over the media. you know, all of the exact same things hitler did and that america is currently doing.
SIEG!!! HEIL!!! i want to create a huge following, and at my speeches we will say “seek” and “higher”. because, cmon those thousands of angry nazis really sound inspiring if you pretend they are screaming for jesus.
Well, the arguments can come from all sorts of places.
One could say that humans are innately greedy and corrupt and therefore need a strong state to keep them in check.
One could argue that religious faith will eventually collapse and that only an all powerful state (more totalitarian than fascist but we all know that there’s a connection) can prevent anarchy.
One could take the line that all actions are political and therefore the state has a ‘right of intervention’ or whatever in all aspects of human life and activity.
One could take the line that the present system (roughly capitalist where I live) is open to all sorts of abuses, or is open-ended, that expansion and inflation and increased consumption is neverending and will tear the ‘system’ apart, and that a fascist state is the only one responsible enough to ensure that this doesn’t happen.
As to the racist edge of fascism - like Tab said, it’s just about given notions of human nature and strength/other superiority, some of which are pretty subjective (like hair colour or skin colour), some of which are more broadly accepted (like having a strong immune system), but taken to an extreme.
first of all SIATD: that ass is really distracting to those of us attempting intelligent conversation/debait.i liked your other non-distracting/outrageous avatars more. why did you decide to put up an ass?
now here is my idea about government:mattew 20:25 But Jesus, calling them to him, said: “YOU know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This is not the way among YOU; but whoever wants to become great among YOU must be YOUR minister, 27 and whoever wants to be first among YOU must be YOUR slave…"
v. min·is·tered, min·is·ter·ing, min·is·ters
v. intr.
- To attend to the wants and needs of others: Volunteers ministered to the homeless after the flood. See Synonyms at tend2.
the way i see it,the leaders are put on high,and tend to get alot of benifits from thier control. what if leaders had to give instead of always taking?
i’m not sure i can continue on exactly what i’m trying to get across here,but i hope i already have.
For the same reason as you were destracted by the ass.
Philosophy is about appeal and personal opinion, not truth.
Lol… lol. 
The state that keeps them in check… will also be human, and innately greedy/corrupt.
Actually, I thought that propaganda was doing a fine job of that?
Preventing anarchy?
And the fact that a small number of people have more power over a larger amount of people will insure better action? Or destroy it?
Inequal distribution of responsability leads to irresponsability, but what’s of all this inequal distribution of power, which requires responsability?
What actual force would make a fascist state responsible?
It’s still just a group of powerful people controlling the masses.
Would giving them more power, make them more responsable?
Having dark skin means your pigments are wider?
Having a strong immune system means that you can resist infection better?
Having allot of money means that you are good at making money, or you inherited it.
So, is a ruler of a country earning his power, or does he just recieve it?
Should we give the state more, or less power?
What has history shown us?
If government was always just about power-over,
and altruism was about impowering the weaker,
altruism will never exist in government.
…oh well.