A few reasons why i think christianity is wrong...

First off, i do go to church (nazarene, only because im forced to), im young, 15. I’m not that educated about this area, i do know a decent bit about the bible and such though, because i do go to church. I’m really not trying to piss people off, and im not PROVING christianity wrong because im sure other people will disagree with me. If you can show me reasons why I’m wrong, thats great, im not saying im sure all of this is right, and your wrong. But I think christianity has some holes in it, because of some unanswered questions.

  Lets pretend you are a great christian, great follower of christ. really truly love the lord and try not to sin.  lets say you all of a sudden have a sinful thought, or action, (it says in the bible everybody has them, its unstoppable sometimes)and then a split second later i pull out my gun and shoot you in the back off the head. you go to hell. even though you were all that god could ask for, and all god said you could be, you go to hell, just because of a few unfortunate events.

also, why isnt god more obvious about his doings, his miracles? he wants people to believe, why not be more obvious?why not make it easier to believe?

I also asked myself, what about people who never hear about god, will they just live on being innocent not knowing about god, but they will go to hell, with no second chance. Then i heard about some scripture somewhere, saying something about people who never hear about jesus still can observe nature and things, and know that there must be a god (not me) and still worship. that means that if people dont know about jesus, they deffinetly dont know about the commandments and the ways of god. Somebody living in a secluded place far away from christianity could make up his own beliefs of god, own ways, make a cult? this doesnt make sense, someone answer me? (if this scripture does not exist somehow, then it leaves all the people who dont know about god straight to hell.)

The “he gives everybody a chance” thing doesnt make sense to me. i am me and i think the way i do. i hear about christ all the time. I try to believe, i gave my try, but i cant believe. i dont have a firm belief at all, i need proof. so i cant believe, he doesnt want me?

and, if god is all-loving, and all-knowing, he would know about 1% of people on this earth will make to heaven. If you count in all of the people far from christianity and like 90% percent of “christians” will go to hell also.(whats the chance of you dying right after you confess your sins? why do even need to pray to forgive sin? why cant you feel bad, and god know you feel bad, and forgive)i also believe most christians do not belive(i’ll say more later). anyways, if god knows all this, that 99% of people will go to hell, why did he make us? so that nearly all of us can suffer? if he didnt want us to suffer, why make a hell? the only reason i can think of hell being here is for motivation. your not supposed to “love” god and “believe” in god because you dont want to go to hell. God wants you to love him and believe in him because you do love him, not for fire insurance. so if god knows most people are going to hell and suffering, that doesnt seem very “all-loving” to me. if he loves us why not make it easier to believe, so he doesnt have to be sad about lots of us going to hell(or just get rid of hell).

i said ealier that i thought 90% of christians, are “christians”. im sure this pisses people off. but think about it. if you really truly believed in him, he was #1 on your priority list, there wouldnt be very many other things on your list. you would devote every bit of excess money to growing the “body of christ”. you dont need toys (you buy with money)to be happy if you have the lord, its greedy. rich christians are “christians” they would donate mostly all of there excess money to growing the lord. You dont need money to be happy, you got god. i used to think that someone would give away ALL of there possesions and money except those necessary for living, though that is illogical. you would need to fit into society somewhat to be able to bring in new believers. If your a bum, you would scare away non-believers. but theres no reason to have an excess 5,000 dollars in your bank only there for your pleasure. and also in my church at least, and all the churches i’ve gone to, people are not going crazy for jesus,(even though there are some). People (my mom) care more about how my hair is and how she looks to the other people in the church than the lord. I see very few people in the church that really act like a superior body is bringing great joy to them.

theres all my thoughts, and reasons why i have been skeptical about christianity. please respond.

You’re taking your first steps toward thinking for yourself.

My advice to you is to learn all you can about the Bible, where it comes from, and the history of Xtianity. For the more you know about Xtianity, the better prepared you are to make a counter-argument. Take Timothy McVeigh for example. He was a man who hated technology, and to defeat it, he learned everything he could about it and mastered it.

Ask yourself, what is it that you believe?

ya i always make my opinion by myself, i take information other people tell me, and i decide if i think its right, i try to let me decide by myself, and not be influenced by what maybe 99% of what everybody else might think about something.

SageSound,

Good pep talk. VERY good pep talk! :smiley:

I certainly agree with this notion.

Seconded! :slight_smile:

And what is sin?

Are you aware of the following:

The point here is that surely God is aware of your objections and know of that gap in our knowledge. That we don’t know does not mean that God have no plans nor means to reach out to all those who never heard the gospel, either in this life or in the hereafter. Given that God can preached the gospel directly to those dead long ago, I would not dare even think, far less limit, what God can possibly do. Also the end will not come until the gospel is preached to the whole world [Mat 24:14]

The more important thing is not to ask about those who have never heard, but rather those who have heard. The more you know the more shall be required of you. Those “christians” in your church, and elsewhere, are in a greater peril at Judgment Day than all the many poor, hungry and illiterate that die by the thousands daily. Don’t worry for God, but worry for what God have revealed to you, for that is what you will be judged.

A few points.1. The response of the first Christians upon knowing the certainty of eternal life is recorded in Acts, especially Acts 4:32ff.

  1. The state of churches have been prophesised, see Rev 1-3 and Eze 34. So again God is aware and you should not be discouraged by this fact.

  2. And it is true not all “christians” are christians, see Mat 5:21-23.

Wow, I didn’t know my pep talk was all that it was peped up to be! :smiley:

Who knew I could be so peppy?

Dreamer!

For a young guy of 15, you are blessed to be thinking so much: all your thoughts are logical and great.

U just need this ONE premise to sort it all out:

Please read the following in this order: Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12, 5:43-48, 6:24, John 15:9, 12 and 1 john 4:19.

Now they mean 2 things to me:
It means that

  1. I must love me as all words and their opposites,
    which is how God loves me to teach me how to lvoe myslef is the same way He loves me: as himself: and He loves himself as all words and the their opposites.

and 2. Since God loves me as all words, then the first sin is to hate me as any word!

Those 2 interlocking premises answer all your questions for me.
I know that they will for you too if you catch a love for your own self.

For instance, the first wrong thought you think is to hate yourself as wrong!
If you lvoe you as wrong,
then it wd be no big thing if you wanted to prove xtianity wrong, or even if you did not want to prove it wrong but u were perceived as doing so and ended up doing so!
Why?
because even if you proved it wrong,
you wd stll LOVE it as yourself!

see?

But if you hate you as wrong,
you are wrong even if you proved xtianity right!
see?

In other words, hate for any words are the holes of hate in any theory which is why you will find holes in xtianity!
But if you lvoe all words,
all holes are filled with Love,
and any holes u find can be filled with Love!
Then you will see that those holes were left deliberatley left by God for you to fill full with Love…to make life more exciting!

So xtianity is not wrong if it is wrong!
It is only wrong if it hates being wrong!
And based on matthew 5:43-8, you will never find that hole of hate in xtianity based on waht JC says!
guaranteed.
U will only find it in waht people SAY about xtianity: that God hates ua s wrong!mathew 24:3-5.
NO he doesn’t.

Then in Love, you will find all your other questions answeed to your great satisfaction!

Here is a hint as to one of them: all people will be saved! see romans 11:26. In fact, in Love u will see that no one has ever been lost and can ever be lost!:wink:

ask any questions.

a merry xmas and a happy new year to you and yours.

all love and r,
iloveu

hmm, im lost, “as all words and their opposites?”

I would love to agree with the fact that Christianity is wrong, but in a sense you cannot take that as the universal truth. I for one, am athiest, but I do believe that people need hope, however false the hope may be, to accept their fate. People shouldn’t force others’ opinions upon themselves. You are young. There’s room to learn. But you are right for not believing what a book tells you. Think for yourself, make your own choices and mistakes, for then you are true to yourself.

Sagey boy, don’t get your dick in a tangle… you might get hard from all the encouragement and find yourself in a bit of trouble… Kidding…

I will give you an objective little response to all of your dilemmas, as best I can. Not in any specific order of course.

Christians might argue that either God does show his works and you just can’t see them (ultimately because you don’t really believe) or won’t accept the entirety of God into your life), or God does not need to justify himself with actions.

I will argue, of course, that both are bogus yet natural protection agents of the system in question. All systems of philosophies naturally have protection agents that preclude, or explain away all contradictions as best the system can. It’s just the way things work.

People who have never heard of God are either idolatrous, or have been saved by the crucifixion of Christ. Now I believe that that is also nonsense, and a backdoor kind of logic. They try to sneak in little rhetoric through the backdoor, but when you really examine it, it appears to be trifling.

The “He gives everyone a chance” deal can make sense if you do truly think like a Christian. From an [onto]logical standpoint, it appears like garbage because it is realized that He only gives chances to those who have already chosen His way, so chance is contextual and limited by the very nature of God as an omnipotent being and Christ as God as some Christians will put it.

Your theory is correct. You should read up on Calvinism. Both Calvin and Aquinas share a common theory regarding the book of life, which God has subconsciously written regarding those who will enter and be excluded from Heaven. The theory asserts that if God is all-knowing (omnipotent) then he knew before person X was in 2300 C.E. would make such and such a decision that would ultimately influence where he would end up. There is more, you can find information in books… or the internet.

I hate heaven. Have you ever actually thought about what heaven is like? This is my picture: You wake up in the morning to a bunch of people who are praising God. They ask you, “Join with us brother!?” What do you say? Deny them and do your own thing, possibly getting kicked out of heaven because you have inadvertently denied God, or join them and praise God? Suppose this happened every morning for eternity. One of the reasons the devil hated God was because of this constant and eternally annoying praise that he wants to receive. Furthermore, I hate heaven because it is going to be filled with a series of “yes-men” as I call them. People who are too busy encouraging each other and exclaiming the glory of God to think for themselves.

God: It’s a lovely day, isn’t it?
Yes-Men [together]: Oh yes God, it is a marvelous day, and it is all thanks to you oh mighty Lord! [They look at you] Join with us brother!

Sarcasm, but hilarious nevertheless.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion, nor is there anything wrong with Christianity, itself. There is something wrong with the followers. Most have no actual beliefs of their own, you ask them what they believe and they give you a Bible quote. If you want to be a Christian, do learn about the religion, but take it with a large handful of salt that is covered with lime juice, and some peppers. But believe in the things that [i]you/i] want to believe in.

Don’t follow the drugged up masses.

i am atheist too, but i wouldn’t say that Christianity (or any other religion) is wrong. Simply because you cannot say about a religion that is wrong or right. Religions are kind of take it or leave it… they are provided “as is”. So you if you don’t like it, choose another or become atheist.

Actually I am curios: what does it mean that a religion is wrong?

it means that jesus preached to be like saint francis, and the catholic church also says to be like francis. if youre rich, give it all up and start helping people.

the way they go about delivering this message is by building the #1 most ostentatious buildings on the entire planet.

thats the tip of the iceberg. basically every single one of the things that they teach that doesnt seem to make sense, they are there solely for the purpose of recruiting members, or making forced members (dark age peasants) to have blind faith in the fact that they are indebted to jesus and should submit to the higher classes because those higher classes have been blessed by jesus.

basically, if anybody was rich in the dark ages they were pure evil in my opinion. if those same people had the sole authority over what Tradition with a capital T is, and the tradition doesnt seem to verifiably have any effect on anything, and it does happen to have the effect of making the lives of the rich better, they are lying.

either god really does teach us to never be rich and then wants us to do things whose only verifiable effect is making rich people richer, and more importantly he delivers this message only through the mouths of rich people who have proven to be mistaken about what they heard from him and who reserve the right to change whatever they say whenever they want,

or rich people lied. hmmm…

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Don’t you think a lobotomy is a bit extreme? Wouldn’t it be better to just make up another denomination of Christianity? One that says everyone else is full of shit and you are the truth, because Jesus said so?

I guess bashing Christianity is a favorite pasttime at ILP, but I haven’t seen any evidence that any of the other popular philosophies or religions are any more valid. Any philosophy that was provable would be true science, and every real religion I’ve seen is based on dogmatic teachings.

It is intelligent or logical to impugn a current religion based upon its ancient past? Can you logically defend judging the validity of a religion by looking at the structures its followers have built?

I myself can’t buy into the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent creator god, but that doesn’t diminish my respect for ones right to worship it if one wants. And it’s seems silly to me to hold rediculous constructs of philosophy, that also exist only in the mind, in higher regard. :confused:

Maybe I need to start a new organization- Atheists for Respect and Tolerance, perhaps? :wink:

if you take jesus’ ideas and then think real hard about what a normal human being in jesus’ place would want his followers to do, you follow pure logic and no stupidity or god’s arbitrary zaniness, you get quakerism.

the whole of the religion can be described in a pamphlet, and their dogmas in one paragraph. there is literally no way to say that anything the quakers do is wrong or inefficient if the whole world was quaker. (unfortunately, they mostly let other people save the world from nazis)

they treat neighbors like themselves without exception. they dont go to war, they ‘live simply so that others may simply live’. their churches are completely boring and plain. they dont have priests or sacrements. you go there on sunday if you want in order to meditate as a group and discuss ethical issues in an organized fashion.

there is no “the bible says this so shutup and do it or burn” there is no wasting money on anything. its that simple, all you have to do is give a shit and realize that humans have the power to organize themselves without the magical fancy divine intervention of irrational ideas and dusty books.

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved, it is the power of God.”

1 Corinthians 1:18

God predicted that you all would be having these arguments.

On the contrary, those who wrote the New Testament knew their words were not good enough to convert those of higher intellect. They installed safety features or failsafes like what you’re stating for the religious to make what they feel is an adequate counter argument.

This verse by the way is designed to insinuate weakness in those who do not believe in Xtianity. It is a cheap ruse to proselytize the close-minded. I for one am not perishing, but progressing every day.

[contented edited by ILP]