A Fine Line between Normality and Abnormality

A Fine Line between Normality and Abnormality

Aristotle said that all men seek happiness. Freud said that the goal of the pleasure-principle is happiness. Man’s desire for happiness sets at odds to the reality-principle. It is the reality-principle that propels the world into tomorrow. Humans naturally seek what they wish but “reality imposes on human beings the necessity of renunciation of pleasures”.

Freud says that the whole edifice of psychoanalysis is constructed on the theory of repression—the essence of society is the repression of the individual–the essence of the individual is repression of him or her self—Freud’s theory is that the phenomena dreams, neurotic symptoms, and errors are caused—i.e. the principle of psychic determinism—they are meaningful because this means there is purpose or intention—“since the purport of these purposive expressions is generally unknown to the person whose purpose they express, Freud is driven to embrace the paradox that there are in a human being purposes of which he knows nothing, involuntary purpose”—i.e. unconscious ideas.

Norman Brown tells us that to comprehend Freud one must understand “repression”. “In the new Freudian perspective, the essence of society is repression of the individual, the essence of the individual is repression of the self.”

Freud discovered the importance of repression when he discovered the meaning of the “mad” symptoms of the mentally deranged, plus the meaning of dreams, and thirdly the everyday happenings regarded as slips of the tongue, errors, and random thoughts. He concludes that dreams, mental derangements, and common every day errors (Freudian slips) have meaningful causes that can be explained. Meaningful is the key word here.

The rejection of an idea which is one’s very own and remains so is repression. The essence of repression is in the fact that the individual refuses to recognize this reality of her very own nature. This nature becomes evident when it erupts into consciousness only in dreams or neurotic symptoms or by slips of the tongue.

The unconscious is illuminated only when it is being repressed by the conscious mind. It is a process of psychic conflict. “We obtain our theory of the unconscious from the theory of repression.” Freud’s hypothesis of the repressed unconscious results from the conclusion that it is common to all humans. This is a phenomenon of everyday life; neurosis is common to all humans.

Dreams are normal phenomena and being that the structure of dreams is common to neurotics and normal people the dream is also neurotic. “Between “normality” and “abnormality” there is no qualitative but only quantitative difference, based largely on the practical question of whether our neurosis is serious enough to incapacitate us for work…the doctrine of the universal neurosis of mankind is the psychoanalytical analogue of the theological doctrine of original sin.”

Quotes from “Life against Death: The Psychoanalytical Meaning of History” Norman O. Brown

The problem with the idea of unconscious and repression is that it can be used on anyone and for pretty much every behavioral action. For instance, why are you talking about repression right now? Are you not, even by this action and unawares to you, expressing the repressed? For some people even philosophizing (just as getting into spiritualism) can be seen as a defense mechanism against some aspect in them (a traumatic childhood event, for example). Philosophy, just as religion or any other action, serves a need, and sometimes the need addressed is not as obvious as it might appear. You might say you like philosophy for this and this reason, but the real reason is kept away from the conscious itself, and the justifications that are used, even by self for self, are nothing more than a protective measures used by the mind against itself. This gives an outside observer a lot of power of interpretation; and given the nature and mechanism of this elusive unconscious, how accurate could an outsider be in his assessment of what you are really like? If I tell you, for instance, that, based on my observation of you, I think that you are here because you are afraid to face something in your real life, and are in essence, hiding from it here, would that make me right and you wrong?

There is no doubt that philosophers, as well as people in many artistic pursuits, are driven by severe trauma in almost every case. What is the point of that, that it takes away from their creativity, art, or works? What effect do you believe WWII and the Holocaust had on Einstein (as well as whatever else)??? The problem is psychoanalyzing each other without merit. This happens a lot. Rather than attacking the reasons a person gives in philosophy, the person is attacked instead. The skeptic fails in tearing down the argument, so he / she makes the person the target instead. I’ve had this happen to me at ILP; there’s too many times to remember. This is why philosophy is tied up in the person – it’s personal. This is why logic is tied up in the emotion – it’s emotional. Like Aidan once said, paraphrased, there is no truth with conviction. Then again, most people have such an ill-perception of philosophy that it makes me want to put myself into a coma. I wish I could find a better group to work with (than ILP, with exceptions), because I’m impatient, but I’ll continue to search for those who are worthy of true philosophy in my life.

Whenever I try to get personal with people I philosophize with (here on ILP), then almost always it’s the same old story. They put up their mental barriers. They are scared to discover the root of their fears, which is death. Almost nobody gets personal when I request it here on this forum, because this forum is not about philosophy like I originally convinced myself that it was. It’s about socializing. It’s about mental masterbation. It’s about stroking & sucking each other’s egotistical cocks. I’m not into that fuck-fest – oh well. Know thyself – indeed. People are scared little children on the inside, everybody. Aidan was right again; people need their fucking “warm blankies”, children, recess to the dream-worlds. Sometimes special individuals get past phase one and enter phase two, Nihilism, and stage three, Post-Nihilism. It kind of sucks when you’re all alone, brought up by society to believe in fairy tales. The delusions fade with time if you let them though. And you truly are alone, independent, an individual, while pretty much nobody else is.

I was fooling myself to believe that I could engage philosophy here, so long ago, with naive promises. True philosophy is true personalization, past compartmentalization. It’s the shit that nobody hears, like when I was a young boy full of fast-thoughts at night where it’s cold in your bed. I knew of fear, pain, and solitude, and Loneliness made Herself my mistress early. She stole my innocence before I was apt about sexuality. People don’t “care” about each other in the common sense that we were made to know. Men fuck women. Women be fucked by men. It’s no fairy tale. If you want somebody, then use them like toilet paper. The female mentality does not fly with me when actions speak louder than words. Women and the limp-dicks bash Satyr; that’s fine. It’s just an irony that you can’t understand him and then you go on to misunderstand philosophy as well. The only secrets of Life are the ones you keep from yourself, not the ones you keep to yourself. The latter ones are easy to see, like Kris’ childhood, AnitaS’ divorce, Pandora’s loneliness – all easy to see – but apparently too difficult to hear. Self-examination comes with a cost. To truly know, one must deconstruct the self, tear it down, and build it back again with a more solid foundation. Almost none are willing to become masters of Nihilism. Even fewer understand the sacrifices made to tearing down a lifetime of work, and then get spit upon for being too beautiful with their visions.

Is that all that you see? Then you see little my friend. One truth is not the whole truth, one lie is nto the whole lie. A personna here is one tiny part of the whole. One does not know the whole with in a few words or minutes. To judge the whole by such limited information is to create a false picture. Ask and learn if curious. Some will answer some will not.Those that answer will leave out details that can only be seen with the eyes and heard with the ears or leave out details that expose where they are and who they are or details that bring too much emotion at that point.

Most here and at other forums believe they know a person by reading a few words. It is something that humans do, both genders, it is a mistake to do so. You and I have exchanged many words. Yet you still do not know 1/10 of what I am. Nor I you. I know this, do you? If you did, you would rewrite what you wrote. Understanding begins when we understand that we do not understand. Knowledge of a person is a gift to you from them. When you give knowledge of yourself you give that person a gift. What kind of gift is up to you. The reciever must decide how to treat the gift. It is only part of a greater gift.

Ummmmm, just how am I bashing Satyr? Or failing to understand what he says? you do realize understanding is a two way street… Right? Show me where I bash the guy and insult him.

Wait - I’m divorced? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Was I ever even married? Are you sure I’m not a widow?
RU, if you only knew 5% of what you think you know, you’d be a genius. You think you’re so adept at seeing everyone else’s “secrets,” when in truth you have no idea what you’re talking about. :unamused:

People do care about each other; not everyone is out to use everybody else. You will never see that because you’re already convinced it’s not there to see. Do you not have any family or friends that you genuinely care about? Or have you shut yourself up so tight that no one can get in?

I was kind of thinking you had immaculate conception going on…, :-" if that were only possible :laughing:

Am I sure you’re not a widow? (see this is a two-way street…)

I already knew that! :evilfun:

Everybody makes mistakes, but I’m not so far off the mark. It takes one to know one.



You’re right; it’s not a Man’s world anymore. That stop in the journey has already been passed.

On the contrary, you have no idea what I see and “never see”…

Is this where I expose myself to strangers to where it will be used against me later when reason fails and vengeance begins?

Nobody’s perfect! :cry:

But I’m not finished just yet…

P.S. Nothing’s impossible. :wink:

Do you even know what immaculate conception is? Its the idea that mary was born free of taint, free of sin, divinely blessed if you will.

Not the virgin birth. I could be wrong but I just don’t see how the immaculate conception has anything to do with anything said by anyone in this thread.

It might be worth the effort :laughing:

Sanity is a luxury I cannot always afford (the booze, remember?). There’s A Fine Line Between Normality and Abnormality.

That depends on if I don’t get myself killed in the process. You know how young men are right?

I don’t like (you) girls that much! :sunglasses:

Touché. :slight_smile:

Sorry, RU, I was kinda hard on you there. I just thought it was a little ironic that you stated those secrets were easy to see, when in reality, you didn’t really know what you were seeing.

And in a “Man’s world” people don’t care? Even “manly” men have feelings, RU.

Well you didn’t seem to have any problems exposing what you thought were Kris’s, Pandora’s and my secrets to strangers, now did you? [-X

Cyrene, if Kris wants to think I’m Immaculate, I’m going to take it :sunglasses: (I knew what she meant). So thank you, Kris! (Immaculate Conception’s more fun than a virgin birth anyway. :evilfun: )

To be fair, kriswest’s fucking problems are obvious for everyone to see. She continously makes statements about not giving a fuck about people who suffer in the most horrible ways (tiger attacks) but expresses massive and fucked up hatred/disgust and more importantly this huge ‘horror’ (that she doesn’t extend to other human suffering) over young sexual abuse victims.

it is horrifying, but no more horrifying than the dozens of fucked up ways that children suffer and die, like from disease.

On top of that, anyone who questions her, well she rants about them getting sexually turned on by things like abuse or murder or animal attacks. When theres absolutely no justification.

Not once on this website have I ever even implied that I’m sexually attracted to human suffering, either death or torture, yet she’s made those claims about me again and again and again.

it doesn’t take a genius to assume that people who randomly make fucked up claims about other people’s sexuality, are probably suffering or fantasizing about their own personal traumas.

Not that I support realunoriginal or his many claims though. Though i think his claims might be closer to reality, if he toned the extreme-ness of his views down a couple hundred notches.

realunoriginal is headed in the right direction, just down the wrong road. The basic evolutioanry logic is right to follow, just not down the twisted side-roads that he does follow it down.

:cry: :cry: Well, OK but you will never know what you missed.

AnitaS, You are so very welcome, those virgin births sound really painful anyway. I would not want that for anyone. :laughing: :laughing:

“Prove it.” :wink:

Were they secrets? My bad then, I was never good at keeping a secret when I was young, ever. In fact, I don’t even know what secrets are. Who do you keep them from, others or yourself? It seems like The Painful Truth to me … Truth hurts, psychological warfare.

As for your questions then; of course I don’t let others in. Why should I? What do they offer me that I don’t already have? Every word ever uttered by a human animal is for a reason – wanting something from the Other. I want knowledge from others and they give it to me gratuitously. I give back in due return, but only those that seek shall know. If I could break off from society, then I already would have by now. Do you honestly believe that I haven’t spent my whole life looking for that answer, or that any of these boys / men around here haven’t been doing the exact same thing? There’s so many insecure “boys” around – surely you see it? You want the same thing every other woman does. I want the same thing every other man does. There are no secrets to me, except obviously, the ones I don’t know about, [b]all of them[/b].

You were the one who refused to help me with female language, remember? Don’t regret it.

Cyrene, on Kris’ behalf, you do misinterpret her a lot and she does the same to you. Understanding and teaching are two different categories my friend. You excel at the first, but haven’t been doing so hot in the latter. You can’t make somebody accept what you are saying without leaving it on the ground for other people to pick up. The birds either want the crumbs or they don’t. I think you’re in the wrong area for that – you need to remember what kind of forum this is and what people expect from one another (i.e. nothing).

Hmm…yeah, I got nothin.’ :frowning: Give me a little more time and I’ll think of something.

:unamused: Don’t be coy, RU, you specifically called them secrets. Right before you laid them bare.

How about just friendship? Or is that too ‘girly’? Let’s call it a drinking buddy, instead, does that work? You could get to know someone and let them know a little about you, then go hang at the tavern or coffee house waxing philosophic…?

Why is this coming back to haunt me? If you recall, you were deliberately baiting in that thread. I believe you proposed that women didn’t communicate intellectually or some nonsense like that. :unamused: Of course I didn’t want to help you prove that.

I said that the only secrets of Life were ones that you keep from yourself, not “to yourself”. I think you misunderstood me.

More later…

I dunno realunoriginal, can’t teach people if they can’t learn or are unable to listen. For example look at my new thread on The Cinderella effect. That explanation and the two links provided to the real information on that thread, should be enough to teach any objective person that the cinderella effect is real and a serious thing.

you can’t teach someone who thinks that admitting that humans can be violent is an endorsement of violence in modern society.

But who likes being a guinea pig (or a scratching post for another’s ego) and have shit shoved down their throat?

Well, since I don’t have the User’s Guide on me, I guess I am on my own here.

  1. What criteria do you use to uncover these secrets, and how reliable is it?
  2. How far are you willing to go to find the “real” reason for person’s actions?

If you say that a person is unaware of his own actions and it takes another person to see them and point them out, do you trust that person? Do you trust a stranger in telling you what you are “really” like? The theory of repression gives the observer the power to override pretty much anything you say in objection. You may say that you are aware of the causes of your actions (say, loneliness) and he could very well say: “Well, of course you will say that. Your mind is trying to protect you. The real reason is much deeper and more “shocking” to conscious awareness. In fact, it is so troublesome, that were it to actually come up to your conscious awareness, you’d probably throw a fit. So, your own mind is convincing you to believe in other reasons (and when those reasons are disproved, others take their place), just so that you won’t have to ever come face to face with the “real” cause of your action. Because of the tenacity of this mechanism (without outsider’s “intervention”, your mind will never allow you to know the real truth), only I, as an observer is capable of telling you what this ‘real’ reason is.”
This gives an observer pretty much an unlimited power. He could very well poke you with his whole selection of fire pokers until you protest and scream in pain, and finally go into a seizure, and he is left free to use your reaction as an evidence that he is coming closer to the “real” cause. (As in, you can deny it all you want but the real reason you are here is because you want to kill your father and possess your mother. Of course you will not admit this, but considering the nature of the repression mechanism, it is expected. In fact, the more you resist my hypothesis, the more probable it becomes).

Who determines that foundation? This is exactly what is done in military basic training, as well as media and cultural propaganda.
And if ever one gives you tools to rebuilt yourself, how do you know that their tools are not tainted?