A formula for "Faith": 'an introduction to philosp

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Following on from my first thread here called ‘an introduction to philosophy’ here’s what I want to raise next:

A mathematical equation contains numbers, terms and factors.

A x B + C = X

The letters represent any given number.
Stages of addition or subtraction are called terms.
Stages of multiplication or division are called factors.

You work through these hierarchically, factors first, then terms.

So, the question for this thread is:

[size=150]What might an equation for “Faith” look like?[/size]

a. How many essential constants would an equation for faith have?

The first obvious possibility:

the individual :sunglasses: who’s faith it is.

b. How are the essential constants factored?

e.g. in the above example of an individual, what condition :evilfun: is the individual intrinsically bound to and unable to escape when faith is present?

:sunglasses: x :evilfun: = faith

:evilfun: might be something along the lines of a social or a biological impulse

c. What else :blush: must be included for faith to be said to be present?

:sunglasses: x :evilfun: + :blush: = faith.

I hope the above is clear enough.

I want to break down “Faith” a little and come up with a definition or a number of possible definitions to get a feel of what it means to the very many bright thinkers who hang about on this forum :wink: .

Tell me what you think?

It may be that you think the above is an impractical way of going about this question.

Thanks

Hydr :unamused: pneumapyr :laughing: sis

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:cry: + :astonished: + :imp: = :unamused: [faith]

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Hydro,

Someone has defined instinct as unconcious expectation, and Clement of Alexandria defined faith as the intensional belief in unseen things, so perhaps you could make the equation:

(A/B) C = x

A= Identity
B= Instinct
C= Intensionality

Making equations may be an interesting way to analogize something, but certainly would not reduce to the truth of it.

Dunamis

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:evilfun: Uh heh heheh huhheh that rocks heh heh :evilfun:

Thanks Dunamis

Sure, I agree.

Above I said that the most obvious constant would be an individual i.e. the holder of faith.

Identity is something more complex, could you expand on how you consider it to be linked to Instinct in the context of Faith.

I wonder what the origins of an intensional belief in unseen things might be?

Hydropneumapyrosis

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Hydro,

I’m simply looking at this through your restrictive “mathematical” model. When you say an “individual” you would have to quantify that. I am quantifying that as an “identity” which would be an ideologically defined whole. In this simple experiment we would have an ideologically confirmed sense of the self, divided by biological constraints and patterning (instincts), and the multiplication of both by intention, which may be described as “will”, or making conscious. Therefore by becoming conscious of both Instinct and Identity, the production would be that of faith.

Dunamis

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Restrictive indeed. How do multiply and divide these qualities…moreover, if you’re not doing it literally, where’s the value in the analogy? Or are you using one of those dual-hard drive brains Dunamis? I often wonder about the recipe of dogmatic faith in things like Zues or Yahweh, but it seems to me to be one of the least mathematical things I can think of. I think it has to do with upbringing, mostly. Also, and I hate to say this, but a pre-condition of ignorance is necessary, as well as rigidity of though. Finally, the age of a person contributes to the unliklihood of relinquishing a faith that has formed their lens on the world for so long…so age count. Maybe the equation is

(person + upbringing - free thought)age = level of faith

Even this is a gross simplification, but it least it talks in a language I can understand. We shouldn’t be adding and multiplying things like free will and instinct. Should we?

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Ok thanks Dunamis,

I just wanted to understand better where you were coming from.

I interpret those three things Identity, Instinct and Intension to be qualities of an individual.

I accept your point when you say I would have to qualify what I mean by “individual” (I find ‘quantify’ a confusing word because I associate it with amounts rather than meanings), I suppose I meant that faith is a human concept and therefore applies to people.

From my point of view, following what you wrote, you would also have to include the term “things” and the fact that those ‘things’ are specifically “unseen” as part of the equation. So faith might apply to e.g. planning for the future, types of research or belief in aliens etc.

Obviously any attempt to use maths signs is problematic since they are so entrenched.

My point was that there must be essential elements which interrelate to give the word faith meaning and that some of those elements might be intrinsicaly linked to eachother.

I know it’s a restrictive model, I hope you don’t find it too irritating. I’m just using a crude tool to ask my question.

Hydro…

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Thanks for your reply Gamer.

:unamused: Alright, alright, give us a break you guys. I know it’s a restrictive model… blame it on my trying to get my head round modular synthesis and complex numbers! :astonished:

I also sincerely apologise for my over employment of smilies in this thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

But anyway, yes good points:

Age
Social Influence
Ideological Attachment

Keep it coming.

When I’ve got all the terms I’ll turn it into an n^th degree polynomial for you all.

Hows about that!

:stuck_out_tongue:

:stuck_out_tongue:

:stuck_out_tongue:
:laughing:

Hydro…

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Hydro and Gamer,

I find the equations of the mind to be very interesting metaphors. Check out Lacan’s algebras of mental states, which he developed into very complex maps of psychic states.

Dunamis

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Oh good I am relieved!

Yes

I’ve seen a couple of things like that reading some Slavoj Zizek who’s a Lacan buff.

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Gamer

But what about faith as a thing in itself aside from religion? As a quality of humanity. Is it really intrinsically linked to ignorance?

Hydro…sis

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Hydro,

Yes Zizek is cool, and I’m sure that there is an algebra for faith somewhere in the Lacan/Zizek archives. Many years ago I actually had tatoo’d one of the equations I had found in Lacan.

Dunamis

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And have you still got it or did you loose that particular limb?

:laughing:

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Hydro,

Oh its still there, large and bold and eternal

Dunamis

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Dunamis

Know of any good web sites for the Lacanamajigs mentioned above?

H

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Hydro,

Here is one for the formula for “Woman does not exist”.

missouri.edu/~stonej/formulas7.html

The proper term for these algebraic equations is “matheme” so perhaps a few cleverly constructed Googles can bring something up.

Dunamis

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Thnx

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sometimes smilies are more important than one might think

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If you can produce an example where I indulge in faith, please, I’d love to hear it. I think faith always involves a form of ignorance. There’s a difference between “knowing without proof” and “choosing without proof.”

The ignorance comes from not being aware that a tension is being manufacftured (faith) in order to insulate oneself from the fact something is simply unknown by any intelligible standard of knowledge.

G

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G-man,

Do you not trust any of your friends or family members? I would explicitly count this as faith. I also believe that faith is involved in trust in institutions, in law enforcement and other instances where we willingly relinquish control.

Dunamis