A letter to ILP

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

We in America have a decision before us and that decision is
the upcoming election. We have realistically 2 candidates,
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

I realize many here hate Clinton and wouldn’t vote for
her if she was endorsed by god and that is fine however
that leaves a problem…

Donald Trump… He says he will make America great, but
never actually tells us how… He tells us we will be winning
so much, we will be bored of winning but he never tells us how…
and winning? Winning what and how???

You say Clinton is a liar… Feel free to name me one politician
who didn’t lie. People lie, that by itself doesn’t disqualify
her from being president…
One might make the argument that it shows a lack of character.
I think her character has been shown over the last 25 years of
working in the public sector… All the many, many, many
GOP led investigations into her and Bill, still haven’t shown
us that she/bill has done all the things the GOP has claimed
she has done. From Whitewater to Bengazi, investigation after
investigation after investigation and what exactly has she
ever been charged with? What exactly all those investigations
shown us what she has done? Nothing…
Investigation after investigation and yet, they still haven’t
been able to find anything, ANYTHING, to hang on her…
Trust me, no one is good enough to cover up everything…
People talk and news leaks out and things meant to be hidden
find their way into the news and yet after 25 years, nothing…

Look at Donald Trump… what type of character has he shown?
Multiple marriages and multiple affairs… He has been involved
in over 3500 lawsuits…He has declared bankruptcy multiple times…
Ask anyone who lives in NY as I have and you will see people who have
watched him over the last 30 years, know what kind of crook he is
and without fail, despise him…He is a known deadbeat and people
hate doing business with him… What type of character does that show?

Actions speak louder than words and what actions have Trump done
that suggest to you that he is a leader??? Watch his July 6, speech
in Cincinnati, which is on YouTube. If you can stomach it, watch the whole
hour of his speech… Watch it and then tell me how Donald Trump is
ready and able to be president of the U.S. People who defend him have
never actually heard him speak because if you had, you wouldn’t be voting
for him…

There are those here who claim Clinton is unfit and that is their opinion,
however by doing so, you then claim Trump is fit and ready to serve…
I would like you to point out how he is fit and ready to be president of the
U.S… He says he will clean out Washington, but as usual, hasn’t said how.
We have laws and we have the constitution and the only way he could possibly
clean out Washington would be in violation of every law in the book and
in violation of the US constitution. So basically he can’t do what he says he is
going to do without breaking hundreds of laws. And for his wall… How is going
to do that? and his claim to deport millions of illegal aliens… That would tank
the US economy for decades… is that the leadership you want?

if you say Clinton is unfit, then you have to explain to ILP, how Trump
is fit and I do not believe you will be able to… You who attack Clinton,
defend Trump…Tells us how he can do what he says he is going to do
without tanking the US economy and without violating hundreds of laws
and the US constitution…

Trump is a known liar because he can’t do what he says he will do.
If Trump is the answer then why won’t large segments of the GOP
vote for him and actively work against him? Why does Romney and any
bush fight against him? Even those in the GOP who should be Trump’s
biggest supporters won’t support him, so why should you support him?
His mythical plans to remake or rebuild America, again no details.

Mark Cuban who should be a natural ally says Trump is unfit to be
president and Cuban who knows says Trump has lied about his wealth.
Trump is mortgaged to the hilt and so his net worth is not even half
of what he claims and is most likely not even a billionaire.
He claims to be worth 10 billion and lies about that…
What does this show about his character?

You who attack Clinton, never makes the argument for Trump
because there is no argument for Trump… you just attack Clinton
because that is all the GOP has done for 25 years, attack Clinton…
Make the argument for Trump, those who have argued against Clinton…

But I beg of you, see Trump’s Cincinnati speech first and then if you can
defend Trump, go for it…I suspect anyone who see’s that speech
will never be able to defend Trump again…

Kropotkin

2

So apparently Trump picked Pence as VP.
Pence who is so unpopular in Indiana that
he wasn’t going to win reelection as Gov…
A pick for someone who can’t even carry his own state
and Ind… is a red state, so how does this pick help
Trump? It doesn’t…

Kropotkin

3

Neither are fit, end of discussion, viola.

4

K: but one of them will be president… How does one choose?
You have no idea how to decide or whom to decide upon.
The fact is you have taken the easy way out and said,
pox on both… but that route fails for the simple reason,
it leads to the dissolution of the US. The idea behind the US
is it is a democratic society and democracy depends upon
agreement of some sorts. You have decided not to agree,
thus nullifying the basic proposition of a democracy.
You are asking for the end of democracy which is asking for
for the end of the US. You favor anarchism in its ugliest form.
For to say, pox on both their houses is to say, I favor the
anarchism of no government without giving us some alternative.
you have no solution and no means to achieve a solution to the
problem of democracy. You are unable to understand the deeper
meaning of saying, a pox on both houses. It leads to terrain
even a former anarchist like myself hesitate to go toward.
to say, a pox on both houses is to abdicate your freedom,
your responsibility and your choices…It says, I don’t care
how we are governed, how I fit into this government.
It is giving up… and a cowards way out…
be an adult and decide. because if you don’t decide
for yourself, it will be decided for you and you may not
like the decision.

Kropotkin

5

As an anarchist I have only three words to say which anybody can quote me on:

Fuck all government!

It’s all a giant rigged shitshow where I always get amused watching the demodumbs and republicunts fighting each other in this country as if anything matters beyond Wallstreet or the Federal Reserve that controls this country where all the real political power stems from.

About 99.9% of human beings around the world have virtually no understanding of Realpolitik.

Have fun political team sports driven slaves, your vote counts and matters! :laughing:

6

I vote for the one who hasn’t committed crimes against humanity, and lied repeatedly under oath.

Very simple decision for me. It is like having two Nazi officials, you get a choice between Hitler or Schindler, I’m going for Schindler in the election. Why? Cause I’ve already seen what Hitler can do, is a proven douchebag. Schindler is a womanizing piece of shit who exploits his workers making weapons to further his profits, but also seems to do some humane things.

Trump is the automatic, indisputable lesser of two evils. If God told me to vote for Hillary, he wouldn’t be God, but the devil, and I would be bound to oppose him, whatever the cost, for all that is holy.

Very simple logic:

You commit war crimes = not voting for you as commander in chief.

7

Let’s do a comparison, shall we?

1.Both Clinton and Trump are in bed with Wallstreet.
2. Both Clinton and Trump will continue the economic impoverishing of the United States under the Federal Reserve.
3. Both Clinton and Trump are warhawks.
4. Both Clinton and Trump are kiss asses of AIPAC.

The only difference possibly I can see is that Donald Trump is more charismatic or a better bullshiter and liar than Hillary Clinton is. That’s not saying a whole lot concerning actual differences.

8

Tea party types loves, loves, loves Pence…
just another reason to loath this choice.

Kropotkin

9

Was just on both fox news and Redstate websites and
most people hated this choice. Even conservatives
don’t like this choice. The name most people mentioned
was Newt for VP…
The census was Newt was offered a cabinet post, most likely
AG… Pence might be the most boring pick of all time.

Kropotkin

10

Go blue team, go red team! Bwahhhh! Sheep sounds in the background

11

K: says the person who has nothing to offer intellectually or has
any idea’s…

Kropotkin

12

I’m not scared of wall street. This is your fantasy scenario of wall street being the cause of everything foul and evil. I don’t think the actual financial center will be around in two generations though.

  1. It mainly attracts people trying to get rich off volatility… we need more measures to progressively weed guys like Smears out. We do need investment in business, and the most obvious route for that is the creation of Debt-Ownership relations between stock holders and corporations. I think a rule should be introduced for a minim as l amount of time you must own a stock, and the percentage of stock you can sell, at a set rate… say 6 months minimum in which you can buy and then sell a stock, followed by a rule if you own 5% or more of a company worth $5,000,000 or more as of 2016 dollars (can be any years money, adjust periodically for inflation) you cant sell or trade it all at once, you gotta wait one month per third sale, and contracts insisting the full stock be bought or sold in advance not be recognized in a court of law.

Lastly, solid 1 minute delay between all transaction of businesses based in the US, or of treaty partners. Currently, it is whoever has the fastest internet signal… they drop billions on buying businesses closest to wallstreet, to put their servers into, with the fastest lines available… some stock exchanges force a milisecond delay… I say do a whole damn minute. Im talking about a minute between posting it and accepting buys.

Wall Street would still exist, but alot more pressure would be forced on buying stocks carefully, and doing what you can to ensure a company doesnt up and collapse in a milisecond… which volilatility trading encourages. It will also give time for government to mount investigations, before a large stalk holder comoletely vacates a business from insider trading. I think the penalty shoukd be the company getting fucked over shoukd be allowed to keep the money and nullify the stock.

In and of itself thougg, with a long eye view to history, I’m thinking it has a lot of good potential. I’m wary of threats inherent in it, but also aware of the benifits. We never would of advanced as we have without it. Just think it has gotten too irresponsible by the likes of large trading houses seeking a big profit off volitility and trusting investors, instead of picking good stock. The stock market is a good indicator that something exists at the limits of the rational of darwinian theory of syrvival if the fittest… his idea was the fittest would survive, not that evolution would evolve into ever higher forms of volitility independent of the mechanisms in nature. It isnt supposed to be a abstraction beating the shit out of the physical. The competetive emergence of species and ecosystems isnt the same as mass extinctions where damn near everything must die, for the sake of the theory. In the case of meteroites smacking out planet, we had random nature to blame. In the case of stock market crashes resulying from stupid algorithms, we got ideological presumptions to blame.

13

2op

One has a modicum of intelligence, the other is a dog in human form. he’s just going to get excited because something occurred, think everything is fun like chasing sticks, and that everyone will magically have bones to play with.

14

Why do I have the impression by ‘dog in human form’ you for some reason DON’T mean the one that famously barked and yapped like a dog as part of a political speech?

15

You know Hillary actually barked like a dog as part of a political speech, right? You should have picked literally ANY other insult.

16

Controlling immigration, improving trade deals, not engaging in military adventurism, and pressuring our strategic allies to take a more active role so we don’t have to do everything ourselves. Agree or disagree, he ‘tells us how’ all the time- but remember, you don’t actually listen to him, you listen to soundbytes MSNBC and the DailyKos chopped up for you to make him look stupid.

I highly doubt you’ve listened to even one Trump speech, ever, in it’s entirely, so what’s your grounds for telling us what he does and doesn’t say?

It does if people don’t vote for her because of it. The degree of lies she’s told and the subject matter she’s told them about are the kind of thing that you personally would NEVER EVER excuse if a GOP candidate said the same types of things, so what’s your pointless excuse making worth here? You’re only saying it’s no big deal because she’s a Democrat.

But she’s been lying continually that whole time, and has held both (or more) positions on virtually every issue that exists. Gay marriage, the war in Iraq, TPP, ‘believing women accusing sexual misconduct’- virtually everything she’s known for speaking on, she’s talked out both sides of her mouth on. This is precisely the problem- it’s not a though her record/character gets better if you ignore the Benghazi thing and start looking back.

Well, they’ve showed us she’s lied her ass off constantly and manipulated the American people. She covered up a terrorist attack to help get Obama elected. They showed that she was extremely careless and apparently incompetant at her job. In case you haven’t noticed, strutting around bragging “Yeah but she’s so fucking greasey none of it stuck” isn’t exactly helping her at the moment. I mean, one moment you’re talking character, the next moment your defense is “they didn’t find enough to indict so that’s what’s important”.

I think you mean “What has he been indicted for”. That’s the standard you just set in your defense of Hillary, after all.

Apparently it shows amazing character, according to the standard you just provided us with Hillary. Hillary has shown us great character over the past 25 years because the GOP wasn’t able to ‘make anything stick’, but Trump shows horrible character because he has a lot of sex and his business history has had ups and downs over the past bunch of decades?

Well, he’s actually been in charge of things for virtually his entire adult life. Hiring, firing, making business decisions, etc.

I liked most of the GOP candidates better than Trump, but your arguments are just fucking stupid. So far all I see is,

“Trump hasn’t said anything I didn’t see him say”,
“Hillary Clinton has great character because of how many times charges against her were dropped”
“Trump has horrible character because he reminds me of Bill Clinton,” and
“Trump has no leadership skills”.

Not even close to true.

How is he going to build a thing? I don’t understand the question. Do you want engineering blueprints on how walls work, or a historical account of Presidents pushing for infrastructure projects, or what?

Yup. They shouldn’t be here. It’s going to suck, but previous administrations shouldn’t have let them in and let the problem grow for so long.

I could roll my face across the keyboard and it would be a better defense of Trump than your defense of Clinton, because at least a random series of letters and symbols isn’t capable of self-refutation and hypocrisy. As it happens, I don’t particularly like either of them, but the only defense Trump needs is that more people voted for him than any GOP candidate ever. Beyond that, even if he is a loose cannon that says dumb things, anti-immigration, anti-TPP, pro american industry, anti-military adventurism are all the correct stances. Punting to ‘let the states decide’ on all social issues is the correct stance. So while I wish he wasn’t such a blowhard and I wish he could explain himself better, he has the right stance on virtually everything he expresses a position on.

According to you all politicians are liars and it doesn’t count if they don’t go to jail, so…so what?

Hillary has the same problem, it just isn’t popularized as much because - well, you know what media you expose yourself too.

This should be his #1 qualification to you if anything you’ve said here over the years is to be believed.

Because he’s running against Hillary, and she’s a crook. Not merely a self serving crook white-liar crook, but the kind of crook who is happy to watch people suffer and die for her bullshit. That’s really the problem here. There are all sorts of valid criticisms of Trump out there, but they all have the punchline of “…and that’s why you should vote for somebody else in the GOP primary”. That ship has sailed, and now that it’s Trump vs Clinton, there’s virtually no criticism you can level at him that the Clintons haven’t done as bad or worse.

17

See if you can spot the two objectivists here. :wink: :laughing: :wink:

[size=50]He said in jest. Well, sort of.[/size]

18

:laughing: fair enough.

19

Besides, in times of turmoil and appearent weakness, what matters more style or substance to most people? It is style. The great gipper himself knew this from years of improving his acting style, and this FACT of political strategy proved beyond a shadow of doubt that he was a great statesman.

Trump is to my mind, is a sort of neo-Reagen, but his skills may be weak next to Reagen, having only one reality show credited to his name.

But these are also tough times, calling for desperate measures, and after all reality shows are much more popular and significant nowedays then Hollywood romantic comedies and westerns.

20

I’d prefer Clinton over Trump (not that I have a say), but my gut tells me I know Trump will win. Why? Because that would be the stupidest decision America can make, and that’s what Americans do. What really astounds me is that Americans seem to know the decisions they make are stupid, and make them just because they’re stupid. It’s almost as if Americans want to destroy themselves.