How can I succinctly describe the difference between the use of ‘than’ and ‘then’ without resorting to convoluted, technical linguistic jargon.
“than” is used when comparing things, while “then” is used to articulate temporal order…?
Comparing things? I think I can compare stuff without ever using the word ‘than.’
Is a temporal order some sort of cult? Are they related to masons? You lost me. Can you simplify? Help me out.
Sure you can; I didn’t say it was the only way to make comparisons (contrasts rather).
Actually, I take that back. “Then” can be used to refer to other relations as well, like spatial relations.
I’m not sure what kind of perspective your taking here. Can you give me hint?
If than, then more or less.
If then, then later than now.
Now and then than is more or less relative.
Then is more an effect of if than a relation of now, though it is that too. Absolutely.
This, then, will be other than that, more or less, now and again.
Thin, thon, thun and sometimes thyn are altogether different…
Spatial relations? How so? An example?
The ability to congently explain. Breaking down an abstraction to create an image in one’s mind. Oh, and phonics.
Seeing the word ‘then’ used instead of ‘than’ was rare. Enter the internet. It has now proliferated. It is usually not a problem since the word is usually anchored in a sentence. You can glean what the writer is trying to say. But these are two completely different words.
‘Than’ can deal with preference, prioritization, and observation of things less or greater. ‘Then’ deals with procession. You can have preference, prioritization… with ‘then’ but it is still contextually predicated on procession. Order of things. And yes, you have your caveats and conditionals with ‘then’ in a causal chain (see: Procession).
Now, how can can I use image words to convey this meaning? I am not afraid to use metaphors. I’ll even mix them up if it garners me a desired result. This is not a threat.
Oh, hey Oughtist,
How is my favorite contradiction? Good to see you’re still around.
I loved your rendition, by the way. Scary good.
“Than” may only, whereas “then” may never, follow a comparative. (Surely “comparative” is not convoluted!) Note by the way that “other” is—etymologically—a comparative, and “different(ly) than” is simply wrong (“different” being—etymologically—an active present participle).
If you find yourself trying to convince me…
That is not to say that yours was not a good explanation, it was, but can you envision someone mis-using those words understanding the way you explained them? Can they see this explanation with their mind’s eye?
Okay, how did we get to “differently(ly) than”? How does that qualify in the grand scheme of things. Lay some context down for me, an example.
By the way, hey Sau.
I’d say the misuse of than and then is either a typo or the inability to distinguish between the two sounds. (No, I’m not going to jump up and go to the dictionary to look at the phonological symbols for vowel sounds.) Either way, it’s sloppiness.
Sangrain, I prefer ‘different from’ in a lot of cases. But that may be just stylistic.
Well, I think people learn what a comparative is in elementary school. I just realised, though, that what I said does not go for all etymological comparatives (e.g., not for “superior”). So maybe we should just scratch the reference to etymology. “Other” is a comparative and “superior” is not, period.
Hey. Well, the expression “different(ly) than” derives from the near-synonymity of “different” and “other”. “Other than” is correct, because “other” is a comparative, whereas “different(ly) than” is incorrect; it should be “different(ly) from”, as something differs from something else, and “different(ly)” literally means “differing(ly)”.
Is that a grand enough scheme? I don’t think “different(ly) than” has any metaphysical significance…
It may be a typo certain times and an inability to distinguish between the two sounds other times, but is it sloppiness if informally wedded to the lexicon (everyone is doing it)? Ofcourse you then get into the whole ‘if everyone is doing it, does it necessarily make it right’ argument.
‘They said it was slightly different from last time, but I found it way more different than I had anticipated.’
Okay, Sau and Lizbeth, does the above sentence work? Why and why not? I’m here to learn.
“He was greater then than he is now.”
“Than” need not follow a comparative directly, but if it occurs, it follows one necessarily. “Then” may follow one directly, but never follows it necessarily: thus the above example may be rephrased as: “Then, he was greater than he is now.”
Yes, they learn to compare stuff. Therein lies the rub. When you compare, you immediately see same or different, not more or less. It just doesn’t seem to elict that up and down sense I equate with ‘than.’ It almost feels as though you have to unpack that comparative abstraction before you can introduce ‘than.’
Slightly hinted at it with fuse.
All well and good, still does not feel like it triggers an immediate response. You know, that ability to immdiately know when to use ‘than’ or ‘then.’
All I have come up with so far is: ‘than’ works up and down on a vertical line and ‘then’ works on a horinzontal line.
Wait, did you just squeeze out a funny? Come on, Sau, I think you just squeezed out a funny. We need to take this act on the road immediately.
Yes, the sentence does work: for in the phrase “more different than”, the comparative is “more”, not “different”. What the second part of the sentence is implying is this: “I found it way more different from last time than I had anticipated.”
You do: for it’s not just about learning to compare, but about learning what a comparative is.
On a vertical line, going from above to below the most superlative comes first, then the second-most superlative, then the third-most superlative, etc.
I don’t think you have to completely define the use of “then”. “Use ‘then’ in all cases, except directly before the second member of a linguistically comparative relationship; then use ‘than’.”
This dancing bear does not want to live in captivity, sorry.
This implies he’s not as great as he was before.
Here, you run into a slightly sticky situation with emphasis. The coma helps, but it seems like one could easily derive two meanings, one being a fragmented thought.
“Then, he was greater than he is now.” Historical predicate. Same meaning as above.
“Then, he was greater than he is now.” After doing what? Did he then become greater than he is now after selling his soul?
I realize we’re ten miles away the phonic stuff, but I’m learning.
Sorry, not feeling it. You’re still defining. Not sure if you’re expressing.
Okay, let’s say you read someone saying something like; ‘I like oranges more then I do apples.’ How do you address that situation.
But the kids, what about the kids?
Indeed, he isn’t.
That the sentence becomes ambiguous does not change the fact that the original sentence can be rephrased that way.
Nicely done, Sauwelios, well played. I have to say, you make a pretty good dancer.
I was just about to say that my rule was not phrased right. For instance, in the sentence “Other than that, he’s fine”, “that” is not the second member of a “linguistically comparative relationship”.
“Use ‘then’ in all cases, except directly before the standard of measure in a linguistically comparative relationship; then use ‘than’.”
In “I am greater than he”, “he” is the standard of measure of greatness.
Okay, I’ll do it, but only if we make an educational thing of it. Saully the dancing bear will dance in public, but only in elementary school classrooms. There he will even juggle with convoluted, technical linguistic jargon.