a merciful and just god, and hellfire.

i personally believe in a creator, who is merciful and just.

the hellfire thing throws me off though, or atleast its mainstream interpretation : if god was absolutely just [without mercy] then shouldn’t the punishment be the same exact amount of oppression they did to others and themselves?

but if god is also merciful shouldn’t it be even less punishment than that?

I had mention this in some other threads, but it’s not God that seperates us from Him, it’s the sin itself. As far as I can see sin has no level importance whether it’s stealing or murder. We are born of sin and in my Christian belief, Jesus is man’s redemption. As far as God dealing with people who have never heard of Himself or Jesus, I can’t say the outcome after that person dies.

God’s Grace and Mercy is just. Punishment from God as viewed by some is not meted out as far as I know. God’s villain is satan and the evil he spreads. Man asserts degrees to transgressions as well in punitive actions. My assessment of all this is concise of course and doesn’t delve into the complexities of the dynamics of man’s relationship with God. This is mainly due to the esoteric nature that surrounds Him. Trying to make sense of God’s implacable behavior without really trying to know Him usually offers little solace. This is why ‘Faith’ is the basis of interacting with God is necessary. All the years of study and prayer hasn’t advanced man that much closer to understanding how or why God doies what He does. His reasoning is beyond the scope of humans.

some people give up the belief in ‘hellfire’ and in eternal punishment, but are unable to give up the belief in god.

these are the most humane among the theists, the ones who see the insanity of such ideas.

being an atheist, i have no problem with this view, because it’s harmless. The Christians who do believe in hell and in eternal punishment, however, scare and concern me. My own mother is an example of that. I don’t think she is to blame, because such ‘beliefs’ were put in her mind by her pastor, and in his mind by his religious indoctrination and his personal interests (a Christian pastor has many uses to this weird beliefs), but that doesn’t mean that I’m not concerned with her own mental health (the idea that his son may be condemned to eternal suffering in hell does really concern her, as i have already noticed, and i simply cannot erase such absurdity from her mind)…

one should never forgive Christian theologians for having created such monstrous doctrines…the main reason why i can hardly stand this religion…

Hey there Fab,

Hellfire and damnation is not the premise of Christianity. While it is somewhat true some churchs indoctrinate such tenets into their belief system, I wouldn’t necessarily say they espouse fear mongering.

It comes down to two choices basically. People have the free will to select their path.

Some people view accepting God as brainwashing. In a sense this could be true. The reverse is true for people who don’t want to believe in God.

It boils down to which detergent people was their brains with…‘Product A or Product B’. It depends on what people want to align their thoughts to.

The atheist from my viewpoint finds logic and reason with the scientific empiricism to be the best venue to invest their thoughts to thinking any theological leanings being absurd.

Most people who believe in God recognizes science’s place in this world. It’s just not what defines their existence in this world. Plus they use logic and reason to deal with the mundane parts. And yes, there are theists who take religion to the extreme just as I have noticed some atheists do.

There are outer fringe beliefs such as wiccans and naturists etc. who tend to be less obvious in their endeavors taking on people who happen to find those ways appealing.

People are basically good with well meaning intentions. I have noticed of late billboards going up stating ‘Why have religion’ with a stain glass background behind it. There is just the one I know of in San Antonio. The placement of it would suggest that demographics was an issue. It’s smack dab in the middlle of ‘free thinkers’ land. :slight_smile: That’s fine…America is based on freedom of thought, except where that sign is, it’s just preaching to the choir.

Not knowing your mother’s religious affiliation, (I assume it to be Catholic) it appears to adhere to a strong doctrinal affectation. The Catholic religion excommunicates people from their church if those doctrines get challenged or dismissed. A church law on their part. But, it will not remove them from God. I could see how fear for that belief system could be recognized by people who have a strong declination for such influences. I would be one of them. Still, they promote Jesus’ Love and Teachings, so I can’t totally dismiss their importance in this world. I believe Catholocism is the largest Christian religion in the world.

Even with all that in mind I would enjoy going fishing with you and have a couple of beers in the boat. Enjoying the sun, the relaxing undualtion of waves that pass underneath in this wonderous world we live in. :slight_smile:

hi there, Liten

i know that not all Christian denominations accept the hell doctrine. I was refering specifically to those who do, for instance, the neo-Pentecostal churches or the Catholic.

as I said before, I’m an atheist in the practical sense of the word, that is i accept that religion has no importance whatsoever in my personal life. I have no problem with the choices of others, but i can’t help seeing some of the absurdities spread by religious people, so i can’t really keep quiet sometimes…

my criticism is more a release than anything else…

However, when i criticize your religion, I’m obviously not talking about people like you, Liten. I’m sure you’re one of those folks that really try to follow your religion and to be a good person. I feel the sincerity in your words.

my mother is evangelical, she’s neo-Pentecostal. She was a Catholic before, many years ago. Here in Brazil, to be a Catholic today means to live as if religion did not exist. Neo-Pentecostals are much more fanatic than Catholics…

we could surely go fishing, as i already said you, but not today, nor even in the next days, because I’m feeling utterly depressed now. i’ll tell you when i’m free and feeling better, but please don’t forget that i know nothing about fishing. oh, and, of course, since you invited me, i’m not going to spend money on this, ok?

tell me, Liten, are there many hot women in Texas? O:)

Hi again Fab,

Yes, I understand Fab. Sometimes I feel a bit put-off by people who represent the Christian faith. At times earlier in my life, I was like them due to the fact I hadn’t grown that much in God. Sometimes some Christians don’t realize hurt they do when speaking to others about God. God tells us not to be too quick with our words. We should temper our thoughts in seasoned reverance. Being a representative for God carries great responsibilities that we forget at times.

Well Fab my friend, there would be nothing I would enjoy more than to take care of the cost for you to go fishing, but I am still supporting three grown children of sorts along with a grandbaby. The best I could do is take care of everything else upon your arrival here. Food, a place to stay, your fishing license, the beer etc. Beyond that, I can do nothing else. :smiley:

About the hot women…hmm yes when they are sunbathing on the beaches to do appear to get pretty warm and sunburn sometimes. Perhaps being the consummate gentleman I know you can be, you could offer one a cool drink in the shade? :wink:

There is no reconciliation between torturing someone forever and being a loving God. None. People go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify this, just as they go through all sort of mental gymnastics to justify what earthly dictators do, but it is BS. There is no reason to let someone burn in pain for all time. Not even a Hitler. End their existence. Check after a billion years and see if they learned something. I mean, duh.

good for you, Liten. I really think that if most Christians were like you, I’d have no problem whatever with your religion…

ok, i cannot ask for more than that. i don’t want to bother you and your family anyway…

i can hardly wait… :happy-jumpgreen: :text-lol: :text-lol:

haha, and i didn’t want to laugh today

let’s pretend you didn’t understand what i meant, ok?
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(ps: does your wife read your posts here?)[/size]

too many shoulds in my opinion…

I don’t think god believes in an eye for an eye.

well, do you believe in god to start with?

I don;t claim there is no god and i don;t claim there is a god. I think it’s unknowable.

Consider this. If God believes in “eye for an eye” he has got a lot of suffering in store for himself for creating us and refusing to help us…

i prefer not even consider the ‘possibility’…

i’m bad enough without a god…