A moral or ethical puzzle.

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

If a man does not benefit from being moral and ethical, why should he be moral or ethical?

If a man has more benefit being violent and ruthless why shouldn’t he act in that way?

A forseen dilemma on the part of me making this thread is that moral or ethical philosophers will say that they themselves can’t perceive acting in a moral manner as being unbeneficial at all.

My reply to this is: Are you saying that it is impossible that acting moral or ethical can be unbeneficial to a person?

If you admit the possibility that it can be then my questions still stand.

2

By how I define “ethics”, people have no choice to be ethical, because actions speak louder than words.

Because people (society) want to exert control over such a man so that his violence is controlled and enslaved.

3

This makes me think of a book called “After Virtue” by Alasdiar MacIntyre. You should check it out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Virtue

4

Explain.

I agree.

5

I was reading that site. I’ll give my opinion on it in this thread later on.

6

“Morality” is objective & subjective.

“Ethics” is subjective.

Ethics has no system outside of what a person “should” or “should not” do as directed by the authority of another. Usually, ethical principles are taught directly from parents to children, although they are extremely subject to change as human growth occurs, because there are no “objective” contexts within ethical examples.

As Zeus keeps asking me, “should I or should I not save the man drowning in the river?” What if he’s drowning in lava? If the context changes, then everything changes…

“Ethics” are merely explanations based on “should”–as such, there are no rules that guide ethical principles outside of lived human behavior. If you are a master of authority, then you are also a master of ethics, but still, this is only personal until you can force other people to conform to your “shoulds and should nots”.

Whenever somebody utters the word “should”, it is an ethic.

Ethics cannot be avoided through human language and communication…

(Morality is obsolete however–you are correct Joker.)

7

Question doesn’t make any sense. “Moral” and “ethical” are words pointing to the fact that a person should do certain things. Asking why should a person be moral is asking why should a person do the things they should do. That’s what ‘should’ is.

It would make as much sense to ask if a man DOES benefit from being moral or ethical, why should he be moral or ethical.

8

Joker,

A “moral” man is identified by his morality. Where does “morality” come from?

An “ethical” man is identified by his ethics. Where does “ethics” come from?

What is the difference between “moral” & “ethical” principles?

(Ethics is “amoral”, because it is an explanation of behaviorisms without the need for “moral” explanations.)

(If a person is universally deemed “moral”, then it is because that person is judged to be a hypocrite by all people.)

(If a person is universally deemed “ethical”, then it is because that person is judged not to be a hypocrite by all people.)

It all boils down to doing what one ‘accurately’ says they will do… Actions speak louder than words…

9

the answer is simple isn’t it? the man should not be ethical. it was a trick question.

Let’s see if i can pick out some of the ways of thinking which are used to promote ethics and morality.

Patriotism
Karma
Religion in general
(pretty much any -ism you can think of)
Family
“Civility”

and a few others which i’ll leave to the imagination…

Cheating is the smartest thing to do… other people do it so why not you?

Our species survives through mechanisms like family and religion which serve to quell the masses into a uniform and “peaceful” nation.

“thou shalt not murder”
“What goes around comes around”
“if you try to kill you mother you get a spanking”

All these sorts of traits are bred into us by various institutions and through them our society has grown in strength.

The notion of unethical or immoral only came into existence along with these superimposed social insitutions…

There’s really no such thing…

10

…if it aint in your blood: it aint in your blood :evilfun: so why try to be something that you can never be!

11

Ethics nonetheless are equally imagined and fabricated like their moral counterparts which is one reason why I don’t see a difference between the two.

12

Should is a interpretive word not a absolute one.

That’s basically what I meant.

In our world it is not always beneficial by playing the rules or by being moral.

In some instances it is harmful against one’s own self preservation by playing the rules or by being moral.

13

You got it! :slight_smile:

Exactly.

14

Ethics are not “imagined”, they are “articulated”.

For example:

“Some person hits another person on a bicycle with their car. What should the person in the car do–drive away or assist the injured bicyclist?”

From the outside-looking-in, any person can give an opinion on what “should” or “should not” happen, but the subjectivity is apparent. It’s actually not for others to say what is “ethical”. What is actually “ethical” is that the person drove away, because that person acted as expected.

Was it unethical for the person to drive away and not assist the bicyclist? No. It would only be unethical for the driver to say that they “should’ve helped” when they clearly did not. The actions spoke louder than words. Thus, the driver is a hypocrite. Thus, the driver is “unethical”…

There is no instance of “morality” in this example.

15

Articulated from where? How are the shoulds, oughts and must of ethics different from that of morals?

16

Ethics are confined within the self. Morality is the imposition of ethics onto selfs beyond your own.

Ethics is not inherently “good” or “bad”, because the self is not inherently “good” or “bad”.

17

Ethics deals with the possibility, nature, extent and sources of morality.

18

Which is why I reject both morality and ethics.

19

You don’t need to load “ethics” with “morality”–don’t let the Christians have their way with your definitions…

Here’s an ulterior way to think about it.

20

what separates human beings from animals governed completely by instincts and the sex drive is the ability to have self control. Self control translates into ethics and morals which exist because you’re not the only person in the world. Your actions effect others who effect others who effect others and so on…
One cruel action can have a tremendous ripple effect.

Cheating is the means used to hurt others. Unless you have no conscience good luck with that, monster.