The process by which icecream is served into a bowl is rather simple. One needs only too grab the icecream scooper, dip the scooper into the icecream with the appropriate force, and deposit the icecream into the bowl. If one were to see the icecream in the bowl, it would be obvious that either a human did it or a machine made by humans accomplished this same task. Now what if I told you that a big bang or an explosion did this? You would instantly say that I was crazy to suggest something so absurd. What if I told you that because the icecream scooper, the icecream and the bowl were in close proximity to one another, there was a good chance that an explosion was really the cause for the icecream that was in the bowl. You would cite the obvious, that the probability that icecream could be scooped into a bowl before the icecream could melt and that the icecream bowl did not have any debris in it as the result of an explosion would be extremely slim if nonexistent. In reality, this seemingly simple accomplishment could never occur as a result of random chance or an explosion. One could make billions of explosions and the end result would be nearly the same. The bowl would never have two scoops of icecream in it and certainly not without debris. Now I make the claim that the universe is MORE complex than a bowl of icecream with two scoops of icecream in it without debris. Do you believe me? In fact, the Universe as we see it is infinitely more complex than that bowl of icecream without debris. Not only does the universe show order as a result of intelligence much like the bowl of icecream, but it also shows life. I believe that chance could never produce life from non-life even if given all the right materials and elements. Even this circumstance is too generous for evolution since it gives the necessary elements and doesnt even take account as to how they got there in the first place. If scientists could do the “simple” task of creating an explosion where icecream, icecream scooper, and a bowl are all present and create the order that is two scoops of icecream in a bowl without debris, then I will renounce my belief in Creation (and a Creator) on the spot. I am even being very generous since I did include the three components necessary for this experiment. Imagine I insist that an explosion not only puts these thrings in the right order, but that these things be assembled from the basic elements in chemistry as the result of a big bang. This shouldnt be too hard considering that since evolution assumes vastly more complicated scenarios of complexity originating from randomness occured…right?
God must be proud of you for defending his truths, tfd. If I were god, next time you pray to me I’d thank you for it. I think it would be rude for god to just sit there in silence and not say anything next time you pray to him.
The trajectory a scoop would have to follow to put some ice cream into a bowl is too elaborate to be caused by a simple explosion. I think your argument is pretty much the stone/watch argument. That is, it’s easy to believe that something as simple as a stone resulted from unguided natural processes, but a wristwatch must have been put together by a sentient being, carefully and using knowledge. No way could a watch “evolve”.
Allow me to introduce The Blind Watchmaker
Indeed… this ideea is nothing but the watchmaker tale… which Richard Dawkins talked about in his book, The Blind Watchmaker… he explains any questions you might have on the matter.
- i didn’t find your argument too coherent;
you can’t compare icecream with the universe -_- i mean come on… ofcourse you can’t say icecream was created by a big bang.
But what if a couple of bananas froze up in the trees… wouldn’t that be a type of icecream aswell ?
lol… sorry its just not a very strong argument to say that if something looks design it most surely is.
What makes any configuration of matter-energy either complex or simple, either functional (to us humans) or not, like for example a Ford Truck or a stone or a butterfly DIFFERENT ??? NOTHING.
These are just QUIRKS OF NATURE AND THE LAWS OF PHYSICS and have nothing requiring any explanation of how they became, if they became or not, if they followed a chain of cause and effect or just popped into existence from nothing.
It is our human subjective view of things that assign things important or not, requiring explanations or not, meaningful or not. In fact they are all equivalent and the very concept of complexity is a purely ARTISTIC concept invented by humans.
The laws of physics are just RANDOM QUIRKS WITHOUT NO FURTHER EXPLANATION OR MEANING THAN THE FACT THAT THEY JUST ARE, THEY JUST POPPED OUT OF NOWHERE FOR NO REASON! Any other universe with any other laws of physics or gods or chains of causes and effects or any other ODDBALL QUIRKY COMBINATION OF ELEMENTS ARE REALLY ALL THE SAME AT A METAPHYSICAL LEVEL.
THEREFORE THE ORIGINS OF LIFE DON’T EVEN NEED ANY EXPLANATION WHETHER RELIGIOUS OR SCIENTIFIC!
CHECK OUT the “THERE ARE ONLY MIRACLES” thread.
nameta - I don’t want to sound all nitpicky, but sometimes spelling counts. I read your post, thinking about an explosion near a bowel. This is very different than an explosion near a bowl. Just throws the whole thing off, I think. Especially first thing in the morning.
Nameta… there is a mystery… i will admit… there is a mystery as to why the laws of nature are the way they are.
You might not believe this but its not hard for me as an atheist to admit that.
However i choose not to postulate a malevolent god to explain the mystery… i choose to have patience and maybe in my lifetime i will find out.
And even if i don’t its still not a big deal because as long as i have fuffiling life i can live with the fact that i wont know. The fact that there will always be humans striving for a piece of knowledge… i can die happy.
You don’t get it. Read my replies in the Energy-Mass thread also. The real point is not religious or god verses science, but the fact that there is NO NEED FOR ANY EXPLANATION FOR ANYTHING!
An explanation is just another description or painting or pretty picture we invent to follow some chains of cause and effect. But these pretty pictures of themselves don’t really mean anything and are neither true or false or anything. We just use them for spiritual-artistic reasons or more importantly for practical reasons. As such scientific explanations are more useful, they allow us to manipulate matter better. The point is THERE IS NO MYSTERY NEEDING ANY EXPLANATION. Everything is a miracle or as such already explained.
well i can’t agree with that.
Actually, my intention was to use the word bowl as I originally did. I however made one mistake in spelling bowel and just kept making it. I didnt mean a bowel as in the intestine, but a bowl as in a container. I edited the post for consistency. sorry.
Design that has no designer is certainly the exception rather than the rule. It seems to me that it would take a great deal more amount of faith to believe otherwise.
Who designed God?
How dare your god of evolution evolve so slowly and leave no trace that “he” ever actually occured!
Btw, the debate really isnt about creating rocks. We are really talking about creating life (however simple) from the elements. Brilliant scientists have yet to accomplish this “simple” feat! Of course even this would be extremely generous as to give the scientists all the right materials in the workplace. Why cant scientists with their immense body of knowledge create a simple cell purely from the elements? Comically, evolutionists assert that random processes could create life from non-living materials. Even if life is manufactured in the laboratory, it will by no means prove that evolution could in fact occur. It would only indicate that years of study and brilliant minds with specialized lab equipment could stimulate non-living materials to create life in a controlled environment.
I like to be generous. I will be generous and suppose that a simple cell was actually generated by natual processes (extremely if not infinitely impossible, btw.)
Now what?
Not only one, but many, many cells would have to combine to create a seemingly insignifant creature such as a housefly. What is the guiding force that would inspire these single-celled organisms to become many multiple-celled organisms? Why should they strive to attain to a higher lifeform?
You most assuredly have a faith greater than I do!
Man, obviously. Just like man designed science. 
Don’t Cows are the unwitting architects of Cow cheese. They had no idea what an industry/religion it would churn out.
Who design the error?
More importantly: Can anyone be ‘intentionally dyslexic’? I wander about this quite freakquently.
Bravo,tfdmissmatch. I have just copied and pasted both of your posts from this thread to a notepad on my desktop entitled"posts worth a shit".
ok, in case this is missunderstood due to my vulgar verbal corruption,i VALUED those posts by tfdmissmatch, and put them in a safe place on my desktop.
Good judgement, Drift 
Yes, siatd, our scientific models were crafted by human hands, just like our religions. But it’s remarkable how well they work, isn’t it? For example, the model of the motion of a pendulum (sinusoidal oscillations decaying exponentially) works every time, and I’m talking about millions of times. I’d be prepared to bet my life it’ll work tomorrow too.
I was gonna write you a reply, tfdmm, but god has just spoken to me and told me that he intends to put you right himself at your next praying session. And he says he feels guilty for not having spoken to you before. (I should add that he gave me quite a bollocking for the bad things I said about him as a boy…)
Despite what God you believe
the speed of light is always a stubborn
the speed of light = 299 792 458 meters per second
and
186,282.34 miles-per-second.
And in fact this is the real issue. To think that matter can somehow self manipulate itself and create odd quirks like flys and whales and minds is akin to seeing matter MIRACULOUSLY SELF MANIPULATE ITSELF AND CREATE THINKING MINDS. This is just as bizzare as a one shot assignment by a god or alien.
The earth was a ball of matter and then after some time here pops out a human thinking mind. WOW!
299 792 458 meters per second, Col? He must be a rather athletic gas man
Damn, I hate ID. A dumb theory if there ever was one. The idea of the universe as ordered and all that is just because we’re a product of said universe. If we were to visit another universe with totally differant natural laws (as some scientists postulate exsist,) we would instantly die because we were built according to the laws of our universe, while any residents of this alternate reality could just as easily marvel at how orderly the universe is to them.
(Besides, I wasn’t thinking about the wonderous order of the human body when I had my wisdom teeth removed…)