A Pagan Christmas

If Christmas has such strong Pagan Origins, do you think it is wrong to celebrate it?

Yule Log - The celebration of burning the Yule Log started out in the Pagan Community to worship and hurry the return of the Sun.

Kissing Under Mistletoe - Kissing and Mistletoe are tied together in many Norse myths. (One including Balder and Frigga will come to mind) Often thought of as a symbol of love and fertility.

Tree Decorating - In Pagan Communities people would chop down trees in the harsh winter and take them to their houses to remind them that Summer would soon return and they will be able to have a good harvest. Modern decorating of the trees may have come from the Roman holiday Saturnalia.

Gift Giving - The Christians attribute the giving of gifts at Christmas to the wise men who brought gold, frankincense and myrrh to the newborn Jesus. But this tradition was common well before the time of Jesus, during Saturnalia.

The Ancient Roman Festival of Saturnalia
A Well known Celebration of the Winter Solstice. Romans would worship the God Saturn, work was suspended and devious sinful fun was held by all, even the slaves. Decorations were strewn over the entire cities. This Holiday was held on the 25th. Pope Julius I also declared the 25th to be Christs bday, to make conversion as painless as possible. (Though it is impossible for that to be his true bday. Thats another story)

In Jeremiah 10:1-4, we read:
[i]
"Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

"Thus saith the Lord, Å’Learn NOT the way of the heathen, and be NOT dismayed at the signs of heaven (the queen of heaven, Isis, worshiped by the heathen), for the heathen are dismayed at them.

"For the customs of the people are futile: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.

"They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

[/i]
It sounds a little familiar. And we are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what he says.

Many Christians believe Christmas should NOT be celebrated, (Jehova’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Advents) Mainly b/c Saturnalia was celebrated on the 25th, but also b/c every time a bday was celebrated in the Bible someone died. Some felt that Christmas was nothing more than celebrating him as if he were a king or a Pharaoh, and that is not proper worship.

I think as long as you know who you are worshiping it is fine, but you should be aware of the roots and then decide if you want to continue celebration.

Its not what you do, its why that counts and causes damage to ourselves.

I find my own reasons for enjoying Christmas.

Often, in my everday communication, I reference God quite often. I say “bless you,” when somebody sneezes, as a habit of culture. I am not opposed to such things.

I am not opposed to Christmas, despite its obvious pagan origins and Christian overtones. I love giving, I love the happiness I see when people receive gifts, and the thought one must put into giving gifts. For those who enjoy Christmas, it is a wonderful thing. Those who feel it’s a burden shouldn’t be celebrating it.

I celebrate it precisely because of its Pagan Origins. Today is the Winter Solstice - the only true significance of “Christmas”: the “rebirth” of the sun - not the birth of Jesus. Thence the birthday of the Indo-Iranian sun god Mithras on December 25 (the first day the days obviously start getting longer again), which has later been appropriated by the Christians, like the other feasts you name.

It is time that we reclaim all these holy days and purge them of the Christian sugar with which they have been coated.

The dentists will be furious! Are you going to explain to them they have to apply for new jobs next year?

In reference to the only ‘true experience’ for Christmas. Mithras’ birthday so to speak is DEC 25 but this is related to the Roman tradition, which we may find to be closely related to the Zoroastrian tradition, however not completely clear that it is. It is debatable that Persian Zoroasterianism Mirthras is the same as the Roman cult of Mithra. Having said that I would conclude that the ‘truth’ you speak of is no different than the ‘truth’ others may subsribe to Christmas. I find it interesting that you bring up a belief of the time of aryanious, but however give it no meaning other than, it just is!?

As I said, the only true significance of “Christmas” is the “rebirth” of the sun. That is the reason why there is a feast on December the 25th. As Mithras was a sun god - an anthropomorphism of the sun -, his birth was on that day. And this “birthday” has later been stolen by the Xtians.

12.27.06.1808

Just wanted to revive this topic real quick to suggest an idea…

I’ve known for a while now of the incredible amount of Pagan DNA in Christianity, and so I justified this knowledge by no longer using “Merry Christmas” or even the secular-friendly-Christian-hated “Happy Holidays” as a greeting to this period during the year. No, I’ve thought about it and this year I’ve used “Happy Solstice.” Frankly, it’s accurate, meaningful, and still conveys a message of good tidings to others.

So, I hope everyone had a Happy Solstice and I wish you all a Happy Gregorian New Year as well… (heh).

Hey Sagesound,

Indeed, that’s also been my holiday greeting for some years now. Although I suppose the idea of celebrating the Winter Solstice probably appeals more to those of us who live in the higher northern latitudes. As Dylan Thomas famously wrote

…Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Or, perhaps George Harrison

…Here comes the sun
And I say, it’s all right

Happy Solstice :sunglasses:
Michael

12.27.06.1809

And to you as well!

Always did like that song… From Wikipedia: It is widely believed the lyrics were inspired by the feeling George got when he left the Abbey Road Studios during the Abbey Road Sessions. At the time, the Beatles were working in grueling shifts to try to finish the album before their inevitable break-up. The phrase “Here Comes The Sun” was about the relief that he felt every day when the day’s recording session was over.
I have heard of another more odd story of how George came up with the lyrics; more of an urban legend. He spend a night with Jimmy Paige at his residence (previously occupied by Aleister Crowley) and apparently he was disturbed by the aura that the house emanated until the sun came up and made everything all better. Believable?

So, back to the topic…

…why is this in the Philosophy Forum anyway?