A theory on Heaven and hell.

I will not claim that this is my theory, I’m sure others have dreamt this thought, but anyway…
Assuming that heaven and hell did exist:

[size=150]1. Heaven[/size]
Scenario: Person “A” gets into heaven, but their friend/partner “B” doesn’t.
“A” feels that they won’t ever be fully happy as long as “B” is not with them.
(So from my, small, understanding of “Heaven”, surely “B” would be in Heaven with “A”, so secure his happiness)

So my question is: This “B”, that God has brought to Heaven to be with “A”, is it the real “B”, or is it a duplicate created by God to make us happy, whilst the real “B” is in Hell or Purgatory?

[size=150]2. Hell[/size]
We are told that Hell…isn’t the greatest of places to end up in, to put it lightly.
So, if a person goes to Hell and is tortured for eternity, What Purpose does it have?
It cannot be punishment, for in order to be punished, does the accused not have to return to an unpunished state, in order to learn from the mistakes he made?

I would love to hear your opinions, thank you :slight_smile: RK

Concerning scenario 1.

It has been my understanding in the event a spouse, loved one or friend (person B) for some reason didn’t make it into Heaven with person A, God will cause forgetfulness so person B will not be remembered to cause grief. That’s opinion 1.

Concerning scenario 2.

I believe hell is a reality. Whether the descriptions of it are metaphorical or a literal representation from the Bible, the baisc meaning to me is it is an existence without the Love of God. Perhaps it could be viewed as a vehicle for deterrence of sinful behavior. In any regard I hope to not suffer that awful consequence. Opinion 2.

In response to your opinion on Scenario 1:
I will acknowledge the possibility of your opinion, but I would argue that if person “A” is grieving because person “B” is not with them in heaven, it goes with basic logic to assume that person “B” must have had a profound affect on person “A.” So according to your view on the matter, all memory of person “B” would disappear. So what happens if this person(B) has shaped the personality of person “A”? With the memory of person “B” and all the links to that person wiped, person “A” would no longer be the real person “A”, and may even lose some of the good morals, inspired by person “B”, that helped him attain Heaven in the first place?

In response to your opinion on Scenario 2:
Ok, I think with your reply you just stated that it is not physical torture one may suffer, but the lack of god’s presence.
Then I will return to my original question and ask: How can one learn from that environment? If you are in this place, without God, where would it lead to?
If it does not have a final result/destination, is Hell then not ultimately pointless?

In your world of opinion, person “A” is grieving for person “B” is a non sequitur for me because God would remove all knowledge of person “B” to even have the possibility for grievance. Person “B” however would remember everything in their previous existence because they would have all eternity to reflect on their non-compliance of God’s admonishements.

I’m not sure if it will have a physical attribute applied during their punishment. Possibly so, I don’t enough to make an opinion on this. Once that soul is in Hell that is it. The punishment doesn’t hinge on “learning from that environment”. It may be possible while that soul is there, they may recognize the reason for their spiritual incarceration, but it would make no difference at that point or lead to anything. Whether it is regarded as pointless or not it makes no difference. It just is.

i will give you a theory---------

hell is right here on earth.

No loving God is capable of eternal punishment. If we humans can put time limits on punishments, cannot see inflicting contant, long lasting pain on even our most extreme violators of social mores, we cannot expect a god to be less moral than we are. If my child did an offense I hated, why would I wish to beat him forever?
“The mind is its own place wherein to dwell
Can make a hell of heaven and heaven of hell.”–Milton.
Hell is separation from God–a mental condition. If I can love someone enough to see exclusion from heaven or admission to hell as problematic, what less can be expected from a loving god?
Most Christians nowadays seem not to have gotten out of the Old Testament. They want the god who is anthropomorphized as jealous, veangeful and culturally exclusive. Such a god is unwothy of worship and awe.
Despite Jesus, they believe in an eye for an eye. Despite Jesus, they believe in doing unto others the evil that others do unto them. Despite Jesus, they see others as raw material for their own self-aggrandizement.

“The kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth, and men see it not.”

sniv i have a theory of heaven also----
there is a tiny bit of heaven on earth every so often for most people.

I like it, turt. Like it a lot.

Well if hell is the absence of god, this is pretty accurate for anyone who is an atheist.

If Hell is merely a “condition”, or separation from God, how does that translate to the afterlife? The very notion of “Hell” was created as a consequence – a punishment. If Hell is a “condition”, who’s condition is it? Is it imposed by God?

It might well have been created as a consequence - but a consequence of turning from God, thereby bringing into existence a condition of “godlessness” (or hell, for short). Not a punishment, nor a condition imposed by anything other than logical necessity.

This seems an awful lot like a prison attempting to promote rehabilitation through ‘helplessness’. The imposed condition runs contrary to to the intended condition [meaning the door locks behind you, so to speak]. As well as benevolence.

Why would God create a notion like “godlessness” as a negative condition [consequence], rather than, say, an opportunity [for rehabilitation]?

God did not (could not) create godlessness.

Even though the christian god promises to do so in the future?

You’d have to find somebody who believes in the (literal) Christian God. Sorry I can’t help.

So does A not agree with the judgement of the deity?

Very good point! Is the love for person “B” greater than the love for God?
I’m not a man of religion, and therefore I don’t think my way of thought would be the exact same as someone who is.
I can see that it may be possible that some people would love a god more than their friends and family.
I personally would not like to live that life, but I say that because I have grown up, for the majority of my life,
living otherwise; in a world where friends and family and loved ones matter the most.

So, do you think that in order to gain entry to heaven, you must put God before everything?
I am not familiar with the bible on a great extent,
although I know part of the Christian religion is not to believe in any false gods, but does that extend to limiting your love for others?
Is it not, dare I say, “Selfish” of god to say: Ok, you can love any person you like, but you have to love me more.

All abstractions and ego justifications aside, how can I worship a god who has given me the ability to see that he/she/it is reported to be less moral than I. If I am given this moral sense of universal empathy and compassion, could I expect less of a god? Would the god give me contradictions as to the nature of that god’s sense of reality and mine? Check out “The Apocalpse of Peter”,in Pagel’s translations of the Nag Hammadi (sic) finds.

everyone has their own god.
whatever you need you will find it in your god.
whatever others need they will find a way to get you onboard with their god.
my god does not have a hell.

kind of off the topic i think it would be wise to keep an all powerful god around for awhile. maybe
the have-nots need that. but i am not sure about this. there have been so many awful wars.