a thread for mundane ironists

[b]Eugene Ionesco

As soon as one knows one is going to die, childhood is over… So one can be grown up at seven.[/b]

I made it into my teens actually.

Childhood is over the moment things are no longer astonishing.

A kid all the way to the grave then.

For me, it is as though at every moment the actual world had completely lost its actuality. As though there was nothing there; as though there were no foundations for anything or as though it escaped us. Only one thing, however, is vividly present: the constant tearing of the veil of appearances; the constant destruction of everything in construction. Nothing holds together, everything falls apart.

I know, I know: cue the font!!!

People who don’t read are brutes.

On the other hand, don’t read what?

We are made to be immortal, and yet we die. It’s horrible, it can’t be taken seriously.

On the other hand, try not to.

The more I try to explain myself, the less I understand myself.

All the more reason then to go after you.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“What lies behind you and what lies in front of you, pales in comparison to what lies inside of you.” Ralph Waldo Emerson[/b]

No, seriously, he wants you to really think about that this time. And, in fact, in my own way, so do I.

“For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind.” Ralph Waldo Emerson

Unless of course it’s worth it.

“Education is the art of making man ethical” Hegel

Though not the science.

“No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude.” Karl Popper

Well, given “the gap” anyway.

“The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor.” Voltaire

What, even on Labor Day?

“There is no great genius without some touch of madness.” Aristotle

Yo, Ecmandu! You’re up!!

[b]Dante Alighieri

Where the way is hardest, there go thou; Follow your own path and let people talk.[/b]

Talk, squawk and then some.

Everywhere is here and every when is now.

You know, when you’re a poet.

The path to paradise begins in hell.

And trust me: to each his own.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.

What, even if you’re fractured and fragmented?!

Consider your origins: you were not made to live as brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge.

You know, being the naked apes that we are.

In the middle of the journey of our life I came to myself within a dark wood where the straight way was lost.

Imagine then near the end of that journey.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“Time is a mind construct. It is not real.” Prince[/b]

And now, Prince?

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” Albert Einstein

But: Will words still never hurt us?

“War is what happens when language fails.” Margaret Atwood

Or, here, huffing and puffing.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.” G.K. Chesterton

Sieg Heil?

"One has never said better how much 'humanism, 'normality, ‘quality of life’ were nothing but the vicissitudes of profitability.” Jean Baudrillard

Yo, Mr. Capitalist! You’re up!!

"All societies end up wearing masks.” Jean Baudrillard

In other words, not just literally.

[b]Peter Watts

Once there were three tribes. The Optimists, whose patron saints were Drake and Sagan, believed in a universe crawling with gentle intelligence—spiritual brethren vaster and more enlightened than we, a great galactic siblinghood into whose ranks we would someday ascend. Surely, said the Optimists, space travel implies enlightenment, for it requires the control of great destructive energies. Any race which can’t rise above its own brutal instincts will wipe itself out long before it learns to bridge the interstellar gulf.

Across from the Optimists sat the Pessimists, who genuflected before graven images of Saint Fermi and a host of lesser lightweights. The Pessimists envisioned a lonely universe full of dead rocks and prokaryotic slime. The odds are just too low, they insisted. Too many rogues, too much radiation, too much eccentricity in too many orbits. It is a surpassing miracle that even one Earth exists; to hope for many is to abandon reason and embrace religious mania. After all, the universe is fourteen billion years old: if the galaxy were alive with intelligence, wouldn’t it be here by now?

Equidistant to the other two tribes sat the Historians. They didn’t have too many thoughts on the probable prevalence of intelligent, spacefaring extraterrestrials— but if there are any, they said, they’re not just going to be smart. They’re going to be mean.

It might seem almost too obvious a conclusion. What is Human history, if not an ongoing succession of greater technologies grinding lesser ones beneath their boots? But the subject wasn’t merely Human history, or the unfair advantage that tools gave to any given side; the oppressed snatch up advanced weaponry as readily as the oppressor, given half a chance. No, the real issue was how those tools got there in the first place. The real issue was what tools are for.

To the Historians, tools existed for only one reason: to force the universe into unnatural shapes. They treated nature as an enemy, they were by definition a rebellion against the way things were. Technology is a stunted thing in benign environments, it never thrived in any culture gripped by belief in natural harmony. Why invent fusion reactors if your climate is comfortable, if your food is abundant? Why build fortresses if you have no enemies? Why force change upon a world which poses no threat?

Human civilization had a lot of branches, not so long ago. Even into the twenty-first century, a few isolated tribes had barely developed stone tools. Some settled down with agriculture. Others weren’t content until they had ended nature itself, still others until they’d built cities in space.

We all rested eventually, though. Each new technology trampled lesser ones, climbed to some complacent asymptote, and stopped—until my own mother packed herself away like a larva in honeycomb, softened by machinery, robbed of incentive by her own contentment.

But history never said that everyone had to stop where we did. It only suggested that those who had stopped no longer struggled for existence. There could be other, more hellish worlds where the best Human technology would crumble, where the environment was still the enemy, where the only survivors were those who fought back with sharper tools and stronger empires. The threats contained in those environments would not be simple ones. Harsh weather and natural disasters either kill you or they don’t, and once conquered—or adapted to— they lose their relevance. No, the only environmental factors that continued to matter were those that fought back, that countered new strategies with newer ones, that forced their enemies to scale ever-greater heights just to stay alive. Ultimately, the only enemy that mattered was an intelligent one.

And if the best toys do end up in the hands of those who’ve never forgotten that life itself is an act of war against intelligent opponents, what does that say about a race whose machines travel between the stars?[/b]

Of course: pick one.

Psychopathy’s no disorder in those shoes, eh? Just a survival strategy.

Of course: our psychpaths, not theirs.

If you have to go up unarmed against an angry T rex with a four-digit IQ, it can’t hurt to have a trained combat specialist at your side. At the very least, she might be able to fashion a pointy stick from the branch of some convenient tree.

Let’s figure the odds.

Now keep in mind, memories aren’t historical archives. They’re—improvisations, really. A lot of the stuff you associate with a particular event might be factually wrong, no matter how clearly you remember it. The brain has a funny habit of building composites. Inserting details after the fact. But that’s not to say your memories aren’t true, okay? They’re an honest reflection of how you saw the world, and every one of them went into shaping how you see it. But they’re not photographs. More like impressionist paintings. Okay?

Even our memories are splayed.

I think I’ll call you Cygnus, Chelsea said.
The swan? I said. A bit precious, but it could have been worse.
She shook her head. Black hole. Cygnus X-1.

Beats a swan any day.

Humans didn’t really fight over skin tone or ideology; those were just handy cues for kin-selection purposes. Ultimately it always came down to bloodlines and limited resources.

Still genes though, right Satyr?

Who is this Satyr guy?

Yo, Maia! You’re up!! :wink:

Is Maia a cool hipster girl with tattoos that works at a coffee shop or does she smell of cat piss and dust and hates sun light and has a romance with Nieatzsche???

Oh, you were being serious?!

Well, in that case, Satyr is this fulminating fanatic, genes > memes, objectivist here: knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora

At ILP he’s lorikeet. Every Christmas.

Although to me he is Mr. Chickenshit.

Why? Because he’s got Know Thyself rigged so that he can thump me while forbidding me there to either create my own posts or to respond to his.

Also, even though I challenge him and his clique/claque there to come here where I am permitted to respond to their caustic canards, they refuse to do so.

As for Maia, she’s nothing at all like you described above. In fact, some day I still hope to become one of her virtual friends. For now, however, I take comfort in knowing that I may well have succeeded in exposing Satyr’s reactionary agenda to her. And I truly hope that she will join me one day in exposing this dangerous objectivist for what he is.

Hope that helped.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“Solitude is the profoundest fact of the human condition. Man is the only being who knows he is alone.” Octavio Paz[/b]

If only from the cradle to the grave.

“Love is the revelation of the other person’s freedom.” Octavio Paz

Or, for some, enslavement.

“Never give a sword to a man who can’t dance.” Confucius

Let alone a grenade?

“The bad man desires arbitrary power. What moves the evil man is the love of injustice.” John Rawls

Any evil men here? Or, sure, women?

“The business of the novelist is not to relate great events, but to make small ones interesting.” Arthur Schopenhauer

You know, before it became to write a best seller make a ton of money.

“The doctor sees all the weakness of mankind; the lawyer all the wickedness, the theologian all the stupidity.” Arthur Schopenhauer

Next up: the philosopher. :laughing:

[b]Minor White

If all your life means to you is water running over rocks, then photograph it, but I want to create something that would not have existed without me.[/b]

Not unlike what I’ve “photographed” here.

Be still with yourself until the object of your attention affirms your presence.

Virtually as it were.

There’s no particular class of photograph that I think is any better than any other class. I’m always and forever looking for the image that has spirit! I don’t give a damn how it got made.

Or, here, the posts that have spirit!

Reaching a ‘creative’ state of mind thru positive action is considered preferable to waiting for ‘inspiration’.

Not counting the assholes. Or the pinheads.

We could teach photography as a way to make a living, and best of all, somehow to get students to experience for themselves photography as a way of life.

Next up: philosophy as a way of life.
Theoretically as it were.

We emphasized the creativeness that happens at the moment of seeing over the kind that takes place in the dark room.

There must be the equivalent of that here.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” Albert Einstein[/b]

Right, like that will ever stop them here.

“The power of our imagination is greater than the power of our intellect.” Albert Einstein

Yeah, like that’s actually a good thing.

“In my opinion it is impossible to achieve a coherent objective picture of the world on the basis of concepts which are taken more or less from inner psychological experience.” Albert Einstein

Yo, Maia! Among others of course.

“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H. L. Mencken

And, no, not just in Baltimore.

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

Try to even imagine his reaction to the Orange Monster!!

"A pestilence does not have human dimensions, so people tell themselves that it is unreal, that it is a bad dream that will end. But it does not always end.” Albert Camus

And then that other pestilence we have here.

[b]Garry Winogrand

I photograph to find out what something will look like photographed.[/b]

You tell me: google.com/search?source=un … 66&bih=625

Photography is about finding out what can happen in the frame. When you put four edges around some facts, you change those facts.

What we do here with words.

You have a lifetime to learn technique. But I can teach you what is more important than technique, how to see; learn that and all you have to do afterwards is press the shutter.

Next up: how to think.

The world isn’t tidy; it’s a mess. I don’t try to make it neat.

And god knows I don’t, right?

The photograph should be more interesting or more beautiful than what was photographed.

In other words, whatever that means.

A photograph is the illusion of a literal description of how the camera ‘saw’ a piece of time and space.

In other words, whatever that means.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.” Plato[/b]

Especially if it’s the wrong truth.

“If one is master of one thing and understands one thing well, one has at the same time, insight into and understanding of many things.” Vincent Van Gogh

On the other hand, come on, not necessarily.

“Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived.” Niccolò Machiavelli

And, alas, women too.
Well, some of both anyway.

“Two kinds of people are good at foreseeing danger: those who have learned at their own expense, and the clever people who learn a great deal at the expense of others.” Baltasar Gracian

Any clever people here?

“A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.” Baltasar Gracián

Any wise men here?

“Don’t take the wrong side in an argument just because your opponent has taken the right side.” Baltazar Gracian

Of course “in reality” this can get tricky.

[b]Diogenes

We have complicated every simple gift of the gods.[/b]

They shouldn’t have created us then.

The art of being a slave is to rule one’s master.

You know, providing that is even possible.

Dogs and philosophers do the greatest good and get the fewest rewards.

Dogs, sure, no doubt about it.

There is only a finger’s difference between a wise man and a fool.

The “pinkie” as some call it.

I do not know whether there are gods, but there ought to be.

So, settle for that?

On being asked by someone how he could become famous, Diogenes responded: ‘By worrying as little as possible about fame’.

Imagine him [or anyone] saying that today.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“The crowd is untruth.” Soren Kierkegaard[/b]

Next up: the mob.

“Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom” Soren Kierkegaard

Cue the objectivists?

“People settle for a level of despair they can tolerate and call it happiness.” Soren Kierkegaard

Of course that’s what those existential leaps of faith to God are for.

“Most men pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it.” Soren Kierkegaard

Next up: most women.

“Truth is subjective.” Soren Kierkegaard

Though not counting this one.

“Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.” Soren Kierkegaard

Right, like it can’t be both.

[b]Carl Friedrich Gauss

Theory attracts practice as the magnet attracts iron.[/b]

Yo, pood! Set him straight!!

You know that I write slowly. This is chiefly because I am never satisfied until I have said as much as possible in a few words, and writing briefly takes far more time than writing at length.

Just not here.

It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment.

Just not here.

You have no idea how much poetry there is in the calculation of a table of logarithms!

And, with any luck, they won’t tell you.

If others would but reflect on mathematical truths as deeply and as continuously as I have, they would make my discoveries.

How about you, sir?

I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them.

Not much that doesn’t cover.

[b]Philosophy Tweets

“It appears to me that I have discovered many truths more useful and more important than all I had before learned, or even had expected to learn.” René Descartes[/b]

If he does say so himself.

“To know what people really think, pay regard to what they do, rather than what they say.” René Descartes

Not here of course.

“In order to seek truth, it is necessary once in the course of our life to doubt, as far as possible, of all things.” René Descartes

Including this?

“Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.” T. S. Eliot

Though, let’s be honest, calamitously at times.

“We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” T. S. Eliot

Nicholas Urfe for one.

“At the present moment, the security of coherent philosophy, which existed from Parmenides to Hegel, is lost.” Karl Jaspers

And I’m here doing my bit of course.

[b]John Green

And the moral of the story is that you don’t remember what happened. What you remember becomes what happened.[/b]

We’ll need to hear the actual story of course.

If by that you mean that I dislike celebrity magazines, prefer food to anorexia, refuse to watch TV shows about models, and hate the color pink, then yes. I am proud to be not really a girl.

Feel free to add to the list.

All at once, I couldn’t figure out why I was methodically tossing a spherical object through a toroidal object. It seemed like the stupidest thing I could possibly be doing.

You know, like posting here.

I did some research on this a couple years ago, Augustus continued. I was wondering if everybody could be remembered. Like, if we got organized, and assigned a certain number of corpses to each living person, would there be enough living people to remember all the dead people?
And are there?
Sure, anyone can name fourteen dead people. But we’re disorganized mourners, so a lot of people end up remembering Shakespeare and no one ends up remembering the person he wrote Sonnet Fifty-five about.

I’ve certainly forgotten.

Like, the world is billions of years old, and life is a product of nucleotide mutation and everything. But the world is also the stories we tell about it.

Go ahead, stick yourself in there somewhere.

How will we ever get out of this labyrinth of suffering?

The key word being labyrinth of course.

[b]Werner Twertzog

I am against employing the unvaccinated, for religious reasons.[/b]

Imagine the reaction to that.

I did not, in my cradle, strangle snakes, like Heracles. But, after a bombing, I did emerge unhurt from a mound of bricks and broken glass.

Can you say that?

Dear America: You are not America. You never were.

The myth he means.
Right?

Dear America: The political costs of ending war are far greater than the costs of beginning one. That is why you have been at war, for nearly 400 years.

That and the military industrial complex.

I must agree regarding Stacy’s mom.

That’s one I missed.

Immanuel Kant’s life would have been different if he had been named Bronko Nagurski.

Or if they had football back then.