A Topic that no one would understand (Fate of man)

Look around you what do you see? 7 year olds smoking their parent’s pot, a 10 year old offering sex for money next to the church, Drugs as commonplace in schools as baseball cards and Adults Consumed by greed “sacrificing” children.

I have seen the deaths of Children who deserved to die. And am saddened to think that such children exist. I have Seen men of god rape those in there protection after promising them safty. I watched Families doing Unholy acts. And seen how Men Long ago Discarded honor for deception and women Discarded Purity for fun.

I look year each and see a great chunk of good is gone, for good had overpowered evil and evil itself fade from humans thoughts. So now evil is considered normal and good is considered Generous and generous is considered stupid. So Human Morals slowly fade waiting for evil to once again consume the world so good can once again be reborn.

You reminded me of someone from long time ago. I think he also wrote some book, called Ecclesiastes in its English translation.

Hi and welcome.

In response to your topic:

(speaking from a neutral point of view)
Depressing, and yes, very true. But that is life. You cannot escape it, and it is follish to think that life will do anything other than just get worse and worse each day. I personaly do not feel (or at least, cannot understand) how “good could ever be reborn”. Evil will and currently is consuming the world. “Good” is no where in sight, and I see no reason why I should think that it will ever return.

Please explain your position. :slight_smile:

It is a long and complicated point I make, The First Part being man need salvation, the second being how that salvation would come and the price it would cost.

Let me start with a resent example, what did man do when it was attacked? It fought back and for a brief moment we all had a purpose. We had to protect ourselves, Faith came back Pipes were lowered and corners left unattended as we ran to fight the evil… But the evil was weak it attacked before its time and was defeated. And slowly they went back to there pipes leaving only the children born in that time as reminders of the ordeal, Faith, hope, Joy there names Reminders of the days.

Thus I show you Proof that Evil can be overcome by evil. My Points and aspects are many and I will not tell you them all at once for I fear it would only turn someone who did not fully understand To a Symbolic perspective.

I little better, but I still don’t understand what you are trying to say. No offense, but you don’t make much sense. stuff like this (see below) makes absolutely no sense (at least philosophically-speaking) at all to me:

same goes for this:

Is this just babble or do you have a real point to make (no offense). :confused: :confused: :wink:

IMHO, evil is allways equal to evil. A given person may tend to do more evil actions than other people, but that does not make one form of evil more evil-er than any other form of evil (otherwise, we could argue that “evil” is completely relative to each person). Hence, I do not see how doing one evil can “defeat” another evil. They are homogeneous; you cannot truly destory one using the other. Only opposite entities can destroy each other, if you cath my drift.

…just my humble thoughts, anyway. :wink:

Really?

You’d treat the guy who keeps a dropped ten-dollar-bill for himself instead of telling the person they dropped it, the same way as the rapist?

And why not??? It would show them all you mean business! Why should the little things be let go, that’s how morals slowly decay. People need to stand-up for what they believe in, we’ll all morn the day morals die. But evil always breeds evil, you can’t fight evil with evil, as all you do is take its place for it breeds anger and hatred in its new host! The hard part is the ability to stand by and watch it while still being good, not sinking to its level. To win is impossible, but all we can do it put up the good fight.

sigh

And what makes you think that you’re saying anything different than the rest of humankind, throughout history? For every age of man, you can find a bunch of people who believe they are witnessing a decay.

What you witness is growing pains.

pax vitae what you are prophesing is in fact moral fundamentalism. exactly the reason why a bunch of people got into some airplanes and trashed the wtc.

now you are in the pickle of either having to say the bombing was a good, wholesome act or somehow extricate yourself from the looming contradiction.

No, all I said was if there’s no difference between a rapist and the person who keeps the $10 then the small things will start to seem like big things. If you know you’re only going to get a tap on the wrists for stealing $10, they’ll you steal $10. But if you where going to get 10 years behind bars for stealing $10 you might think twice.

I believe in the laws of the state and the processes that put those laws in place. I’m only fundamental about punishment of crime. They say punishment should fit the crime, I think the punishment should be over the top in comparison to the crime, as the punishment is meant to be a deterrent. So if the person things about it they’ll choose not to commit the crime as the gain is not worth the risk of being caught. If anything I would say I’m very rightwing conservative when it comes to these matters. If given the choice to introduce canning as a form of punishment, I would.

Hey Pax, how are you? I just wanted to say I agree with majority of what you say. Yes punishment is meant to be a deterent and in most cases we all know that it is not, but that does not mean your punishment should be over the top. That is, and I mean no offense by this, insane. I can only conclude by what you say, that most likely you are a supporter of the death penalty, or at least in your philosophy you would kill those who kill, if I understand correctly. That for me is the biggest flaw in your thinking. If punishment is suppose to be a deterent than I can tell you that death is surely the best form of detering after all if they are dead they sure as hell can’t do it agree.

i am sorry pax vitae, i do not see any merit in your argument, not even enough merit for it to be worthy of a rebuttal. it is simple barbarity and thats the long and the short of it.

and if you think punishment will make people better…

They’ve tried this. “Three Strikes” laws are worthless - they fail to deter crime while putting people behind bars for (in some cases) twenty years for shoplifting chocolate bars, while their rapist cellmates are out in five. Meanwhile crime is not deterred and prisons are filling up.

The whole deterrence theory of punishment is fundamentally flawed. People who have already been punished continue to commit crimes in large numbers, and increasing the penalty for a crime does not reduce the incidence of that crime (example - death penalty and murders).

There is no deterrence. The only way that actually works to stop people from harming others is education - moral values, if you insist on calling them that, inculcated from infancy by responsible parents. The state, whenever it has tried to get in on this process, has failed miserably and in some cases caused much more harm than it could possibly have ever fixed.

There’s no excuse for treating other human beings like shit - no matter what their crime. We lock them up because they have breached the trust of the community - and to whatever extent we lock them up to punish them, to vent our anger (which it certainly sounds like you are doing), or to “make an example of them” it only pisses them off and in some cases turns them into martyrs. The worse the prison environment, the more violent crime you’ll have outside of prisons.

yeah zen, detterrence has never shown to be effective at anything, except in fransisco francos spain. i remember hearing very much about how you could just leave your car doors unlocked. why was that? was the place economically stable? or was it really fully because of francos harsh punishments and effective police? if francos degree of harshness is the only kind that produces results, is it really worth it?

i think the main thing that should be done to stop crime is to take away the motivation for it! give those poor people jobs and they wont be crack dealers. take away crack dealers and addictions and holy shit do you have a lot less crime. or, much more easily, make jobs for crackheads so they can buy it with their own hard work, and robberies will practically dissapear.

i will bet anybody any sum of money that if rich animals on top of the lcurve gave it up to help one city eliminate poverty (not by welfare, but by some kind of economic expansion), that city would have an unheard of low amount of crime. especially violent crime.

the motivation for criminals today is what is easiest. the easiest life is commiting crimes and avoiding the police, and living in relative luxury in jail if you get caught. the easiest life is NOT a product of getting off your ass and working 40 hours a week at the nearest fast food restaurant. 1) thats usually not possible and 2)its nowhere near as easy as avoiding the cops.

I think they should create a new reality show 24/7 with no, and I mean No Censoring! of the prison system in action, those on the outside can see how it is on the inside. Have cameras everywhere so nothing can escape the public’s gaze. This could enable the prison system to start paying for its self. Remove all TV’s and Radios from the prisoners only books are available, if they want to do something let them read.

If they choose to opt out of the normal social system, then they give up the rights of that system. Only the rights that they are willing to give others should be given to them. Give them the choice to change themselves, but also give them the option to quit and commit suicide. Very harsh I know and not something the religious would approve of. But why waste our time trying helping people who won’t help themselves?!?

Okay, let me state this for the record…

I was not trying to state that I think that stealing should be punished the same way we punish for murder. The crimes are different, and thus, the consrquences should be too…in proportion to the specific crime(s) commited.

However, both the act of stealing and the act of murdering contain a common “element” of evilness. Both are evil. In this sense, I feel that the two crimes can be considered equal.

Sorry if this is kind of confussing… :wink:

they both reflect the same brain malfunction, just to different degrees. the way to fix either malfunction is probably the same.

are you trying to say that “evil” is/are brain malfunctions? If so, are you then suggesting that man, by “default”, is naturally inclined towards good rather than towards evil? :confused:

thanks zen, i really wouldnt have had the patience to type all that, but yea i entirely agree. couldnt have said it better myself.

now let me tell you a story about cairo. this is a 10 million or so strong town populated by people who make about 3 dollars a day. however, there are virtually no guards to speak of, the policemen do not wear weapons. at all. special forces deployed to guard foreigners (such as around the hilton etc) carry semi automatic assault rifles. i live 50 meters from the supreme court of egypt, in between the ministry of turism and the ministry of agriculture. and the journalist’s syndicate building. all this in about 1 sq mile. i have yet to see a single armed cop. but if i cross the river and go to the tourist zone its mortar shields and bunkers and fox holes for fucks sake.

so tell me, are them guards protecting the tourists from cairo or cairo from the tourists ? cause it sure seems to me like the latter.

and if i go down the street i could pick up and run with anything, and nobody would be close enough to stop me. food, clothing, shoes, tools, i have seen at least 5 scooters parked on the sidewalk with nobody there and the keys in. i have been asked to “sit with the shop for 5 minutes” by people i barely just met. i needed to do some plumbing and the guy who sold me the supplies lent me his wrench (about same value as what i got). guy never saw me before i just said ill be back with it.

nobody shoplifts here. to say that people living in manhattan making or better said spending 1k a week dont steal 10$ worth of crap is one thing. and in fact they DO STEAL IT. but to say people considered third worldlers making jack shit dont steal is quite another. and they dont.

i have not yet been shortchanged, even through i dont even speak the language. they simply dont do that sort of crap. and i have yet to see people not fighting, but in an argument. i havent seen a sngle pair of two idiots arguing in almost a week here. hows that ? think i can explain road rage to them folks around here ? and you should see the shit they have to put up with in the streets, the worst trafic jams in recorded history.

and no i wasnt being walled up and surrounded by guards and hauled around in metal windowed cars. i been walking the streets of this town, the backstreets wearing my custom suits and my european face and my overcoats and my big stacks of worthless local currency. once a beggar asked me for money. but nobody got anywhere near hussling. now go try walking a bit before midnight in umm… say the south bronx ? being white and looking rich, see how far you get.

and this is not just cairo. this is true of very many places idiot americans who never ever live the state they were born in call “the third world”. it is istanbul, it is many places. in romania, in a half milion or so town there has not been a murder in about 15 years now. not manslaughter, not justifiable homicide, nothing.

so as far as i know, the westerners got it wrong. very wrong.

yes evil is caused by receiving evil in childhood. if you think humans’ natural inclination is towards selfishly stealing from your workers or from anybody, that is because your parents were failures and because some trauma happened to you that is not normal. seriously, you evil people, speak up if you exist, i want to analyze you and figure out what your problem is, because you DO have one. and its a bad one that will ruin the rest of your life if you dont seek help.