Abortion

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

The question is, when are you killing a person? The question to me is, when are you killing a soul?

I have herd it stated that an infant will have a significant leap in brain activity about 30 days after birth. Yet no one has ever confirmed this. So I wonder about it’s validity. So I choose a different angle of attack…

Why would you logically want an abortion. The three reasons I find acceptable to even consider getting rid of your child is… Rape. Danger to life of mother. A child will inhibit you from succeeding in life (IE college). Now with proper caution, these three reasons should be avoided with prevention technicks. Thus adverting any problems that cannot be solved with adoption. Isn’t staralization a better insurance then killing a child. Especially when a society so caloused to violence is taught to see a child as a choice. Thus distracting any feelings toward this child with intellectualization.

Maybe it’s just the loss of respect toward life that inhibits Christians from jumping on this band wagon. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that a child will change your life weather you want it or not. Think about that when you realize that people who cannot take these precationary methods are usally young and nieve about the concequences of sex, or drunks and forgot to think about it.

In the mind of a liberalist, it’s kill untill proven else wize. In the minds of a conservative it’s protect untill proven else wize. Who do I trust more,… well isn’t it obvious.

2

most abortions take place before 30 days. if youre not an idiot and you think you might be pregnant you get tested. usually you can have your cluster of cells “aborted” before its divided enough to even resemble a living thing.

proper caution im assuming is not getting pregnant? you can take all the cationary methods out there theres still a chance youll get pregnant. even if you get your tubes tied.

no. theyre uneducated because christians wont let people talk to their kids about sex. most adults are just as uneducated and careless theyre just in relationships. by the time they divorce and start thinking to have rampant sex again their sex drive has dramatically decreased.

most liberals frown on abortions just like everyone else.

3

During the seventh to ninth week of pregnancy the developing fetus’s heart will start beating.

4

i think abortion is wrong, not because of religion (well not totally), but because it seems common sense to me for someone to have the thought “maybe this guy was supposed to come rape me. maybe my kid is supposed to grow up without a father and become stronger because of it. maybe his purpose is to lead the country one day and he’ll need that background. maybe i shouldn’t kill him”

on the other side, i have a friend who believes abortion is wrong if you’re stupid and you just got knocked up, but if you’re raped you should have the choice. and i understand that viewpoint but still i don’t believe it totally.

5

Well, we all agree that killing people who can’t defend themselves is wrong, I should hope. So I guess it comes down to a discussion of facts, not ethics. Should a fetus count as a person?

6

well not all abortions are performed on fetuses even.

7

Sweet Zombie Jesus! are you serious?

That has got to be one of the more insain things I’ve read on ILP. Do you even know what you type most of the time? You’ve said some crazy stuff and usually I just ignore you, but this is just insain! Do you honestly believe that it’s “common sense” to expect women to think they were predestined to be raped?

Man if this is the worst this post gets then it’ll be alright. I can’t even begin to imagine what stupid crap PoR is going to post.

8

I don’t, as least not related to Abortion anyway.

If one could 100% prove, using scientific testing and philisophical arguments, that a fetus is a living being with a soul it wouldn’t change my opinion: As long as the baby is in the womans womb she has the right to abort it, even if it is a person with a soul.

9

I am generally against abortion, but I haven’t been yet confronted with a distinct situation in order to teast my reactions.

What really ails me are not the excuses concerning the purpose for which the child is introduced to life, nor the means he will be raised with, but issues which I find are more complicated to evaluate.

For instance, what if the mother has AIDS, meaning that she will subsequently transmit the disease to the child, or what if the phoetus is proved to suffer from a serious genetic malformation, which would be fatal if he were to make it out in the open ?.. Does this change the situation ?

10

if the circumstances you find yourself in are not right for a baby I believe you should abort it. if the fetus knew why you terminated him he would have forgiven you. I wish my mother had aborted me, she never wanted kids in the first place, which resulted in her being a bad mother and me suffering my whole life long. I also never want children of my own, because I carry an acne gene that is severely disfiguring. in the future there might not be medicines due to civilization downfall or my own money problems, so chances are that kid could be a sucky repitition of me. I would have enough love for that kid to abort it so that it could never be a freak outcast like me. i will rather adopt some poor little child from an orphanage who needs love and care.

11

I’ve stated my position on this a few times but I’ll thrash it out again for the sake of discussion:

a) The ‘right to choose’ is a nonsense, primarily because there are no innate rights, only those that exist at a given time because of the ongoing negotiation between the citizenry and the powers that be

b) The right to choose was a reactionary invention, an attempt to resolve the problems the problems of the old organisation where the father had practically all the rights; like all reactionary measures it created as many problems as it solved

c) Contemporary legislation and norms exclude everyone but the mother from the childcarrying and childrearing process. Given the legislation and norms which demand responsibility from the father, grandparents and so on I think that this is a gross imbalance which, like most western culture concerned with children, excludes the father (or father-to-be)

d) The ‘the mother has the right to choose because it is her body’ argument doesn’t stand up. If it was ‘her’ body then she should have simply chosen not to get pregnant in the first place. We aren’t in complete control of our bodies and to pretend otherwise because of liberal ethics is pathetic and stupid

e) My proposal’s include making it easier to obtain contraception (and advice on sexual behaviour) but harder to obtain abortions. I think that mothers to be should, where it is a reasonable expectation, tell the father prior to having the procedure, where that is their intention. I don’t think that the father should have to give his permission or anything of the sort, but I think he should at least be informed. I also think that there should be a limit on the number of procedures that can be performed in a certain time period to eliminate those (very few) foul women who serially abort as a sort of contraceptive get-out clause. Now unless these women prove to be incredibly fertile I think that it is fair to condemn them. Mistakes happen. No-one aborts 6 fetuses in 2 years purely due to mistakes.

Bessy in her ongoing wisdom did bring up some pictures recently that, I’ll be honest, only reinforced my belief that a great many abortions are carried out without even the mother to be giving due consideration to what is involved.

12

Do you believe in true love?

The one question I always wonder about is, who were these aborted babies going to be mated with? How will it change their lives?

Yet the woman’s choice is a hard concept,… what about the mans DNA that went into this baby? What about his choice to raise a child under the equal rights stated in our constitution? What about the babies choice?

I still say that enough precaution will allow adoption as an acceptable way to deal with children with no home. Especially when the percent of parents who decide to raise a child after seeing it’s face or even just it’s ultra sound; is taken into consideration.

13

Not just the father, but the grandparents as well. These days it is fashionable to see a pregnant women as an individual moral agent when it comes to such decisions but in truth the emotional well-being of many people and the life of the baby itself are also involved and I feel should be considered.

14

I like Sagan’s idea on this one. We value intelligence. Its the one aspect that seperates us from the animals. We have no problem killing a pig, because “its just a stupid pig!!!”, but killing a man… well thats just wrong.

So whats the difference? The size of the NeoCortex. So once the NeoCortex begins to develop(or when it reaches a certain size) thats when a soul emerges.

15

Making abortions illegal would or could cause serious problems. Using abortion as birth control is wrong. There are good reasons to abort and bad ones too. I hold with, I would rather see 100 aborted fetuses in a body bag then one dead abused child.

16

Siatd wrote:

You haven’t answered if you believe in true love, though…

17

You start with the assumption that rights are nonsense, to which I agree, yet you continue to explain why the mother doesn’t have the right to choose. This contradicts! I believe it’s safe to say that you’ll agree with me when I say that rights are constructed when the individual chooses which freedoms she can and cannot have based on a culture’s structure of morals. With this said a right is what you choose it to be.

So it’s very simple, it’s her body and she is choosing her right to interact with it as she sees fit. If she affirms her right to abort then it’s her right to abort! Others can try and stop her from enacting her rights, but if she is determined she could always get a hold of Cotton Root Bark or Cohosh (two herbal abortion methods I am aware of).

[size=75]Before I begin, to whoever is going to want to, please don’t get us involved in a discussion about idealism, Descartes, or anything related to the mind-body problem.[/size]

SOIATD that is just silly. If there is anything that can be controlled by an individual it is the body. One may not have complete control over all of its functions but one certainly can choose how it is to be interacted with in the world. To assume a right is invalid because an individual should have just been able to control all aspects of its body is ridiculous. “You don’t deserve chemotherapy because you should have willed yourself not to have cancer.” Besides if rights are not extended to the individual’s body then rights cannot be affirmed and simply do not exist, in any meaningful way at all, but I know you don’t feel that way.

If you agree that an individual has the right risk its life then you should also agree that the individual has the right to do anything else to its body.

Oh lets say like wrestling with a cyborg-shark and a lion-with-a-jetpack while in a steel cage perilously dangling over a pit of lava. Or anything at all which may risk the individual such as: extreme skipping, smoking, willfully having unprotected sex with someone who has aids, shooting heroin, getting a Ford Explorer, loading a gun and blowing your head off, eating fried foods, base jumping… I could go on.

So the right to right to choose abortion is the individuals right to control, to whatever limited degree, its own body.

Only for men, have you seen what happens to a woman’s body during pregnancy and especially labor? Only an idiot, like a Christian, would want to deal with that much pain, suffering and emotional turmoil just to give it up at the end of it.

Oh and a little fact, abortion in the first trimester, especially the first two months is much, much safer to the woman than birth. There is no tearing, stretching or scarring (unless it’s some back-alley hick with a hanger).

[size=59]- - – ---- - - - - NOW ITS TIME FOR SOMETHING SERIOUS - - - – - – - – - - [/size]

I honestly can’t wait for the time when abortion technology has advanced to home abortion kits. I would love to see the streets filled with the malformed remnants of baby husks everywhere. “Oh man I just ran over another fetus! I really hate it when people toss them out their car window.”

I like how the Church of Euthanasia exults abortion, "Praise loudly the victorious destroyer of unwanted and unneeded children! …You [Christians] can invoke your insane and giddy god all day long. It will do no good. He has no power here! She who whets your appetite with sexual pleasures also whets the knife. She grasps, binds, and enthralls! The holy abortionist only summons those who are deserving of the call! She is free from imperfection! Like husks removed from grain, the unborn are hers!"

18

if that was the case the women could have it sucked out of her and she could give the baby to the husband. then they just have to live together peacefully and love/hate their newborn.

a cluster of cells has no face though. they look like this

.

thats a picture of an abortion. a snapshot i swear.

nor do they have a heart.

unless the person is seriously indecisive and just retarded the abortion shouldnt be happening any later than the first couple weeks. if the person cant make that decision though they have responsibility issues and already a major child raising problem.

19

yea their emotions should also be considered when you choose your career. i mean… when my kids grow up i want them to have the money to keep me plenty fat and happy for the last of my days.

20

I’m sorry but this has got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments against abortion that I have ever read.

I hope that even people who are against abortion would agree.