Acceptance/Letting Go

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

I know a part of Buddhism is about letting go of the things we want in life and accepting our losses and accepting a new life. But, let’s pretend, that there was someone who only wanted to live a particular style of life. This is his/her one and only life of good value to him/her and all other styles of life to him/her are of no value to him/her. It would be no different than if someone had a particular style in music and all other styles of music to him/her don’t hold any good value to him/her. Therefore, if someone had only one style of life he/she found good value in such as going out and walking in nature, but then developed cancer and was bound to a hospital bed, then this new life of being in that hospital bed would be of no good value to him/her at all since this new life is not his/her style at all. It would be no different than if he/she was listening to music he/she likes (in this case, him/her going out and walking in nature), but then that music he/she likes was taken away from him/her and he/she is now listening to music he/she finds no value in (in this case, him/her being bound in a hospital bed with cancer and living a new life in which he/she can no longer go out in nature anymore). As a matter of fact, it would be him/her now listening to music he/she hates since this is a new life he/she utterly detests.

This person would have every right to end his/her life rather than to just accept it since this life is not his/her style at all as I said before and wasn’t the life he/she wanted to live at all. For other people to tell him/her that he/she should just accept this lifestyle and that, even though he/she no longer has the life he/she wanted to live, that he/she should instead live for others, then that would be utterly selfish of these other people to tell him/her so. It says to him/her that only these other people matter now and that he/she should just instead have all the attention, value, and just cater to these people. The fact is, he/she is just as important as any other person and he/she deserves his/her good life that he/she wanted to truly live. He/she has every right to live that life. Therefore, for others to just tell him/her to accept this new life of cancer and just live for others would be denying, demeaning, and restricting of this person’s value as a human being which would be his/her right to have his/her good life he/she wants. Therefore, balance is key here. We must have our own good lives we want to live while also living for others and bringing them good lives as well. We must have our good lives and others must have their good lives. Otherwise, we should end our lives and we have every right to end our lives if we could never get our good lives back. We have every right to have our good lives we want to live as long as these are lives that don’t harm and demean other innocent people.

You choosing to end your life in the event that you could never regain your good life would not make you selfish at all. For example, with Robin Williams, the good value that he has invested towards the message of living for others, that good value has been redirected towards a new message of value towards his family and other people when he has decided to end his life due to his depression. This new message of value says to his family and other innocent people that he just can’t take his depression anymore and that it is just simply time for him to go. That he still has full value towards them anyway even though he knows very well that he will cause them grief in his act of suicide and that he wishes for them to find their own strengths in life without him. Therefore, Robin Williams didn’t have any less value towards others in his act of suicide. Instead, his value has been switched over to a new message. The message he has had before was him choosing to live for others. But that message has changed over to that new message I just mentioned here.

I have lost all my feelings of pleasure 24/7 due to anhedonia (absence of pleasure) which is a negative symptom of schizophrenia and I’m not sure I will ever regain my pleasure back. My feelings of pleasure are very profound to me, are the only things that make my personal life good and worth living and nothing else, and are more important than my beating heart and the air I breathe to stay alive. My heart and air keep me physically alive. But my feelings of pleasure keep me alive in the sense of giving my life a sense of good value and worth. Nothing else gives my life a sense of good value and worth. Therefore, I must have my full feelings of pleasure back to me in my life up and running as a full function in my life to keep my life up and running with good value and worth. I am not selfish or anything of the sort when saying that my feelings of pleasure are the only things that give the things I do a sense of good value and worth. I still have full value and compassion towards others and I still help others out. It’s just that what makes my own personal life good and worth living is my feelings of pleasure and nothing else. If I have decided to end my life due to my pleasure never recovering, then I would not be having any less value towards others (as demonstrated in my example with Robin Williams). It is only my feelings of pleasure that give my life a sense of good value and worth. Not any other form of pleasure that is so claimed to come from our thoughts and everything else in life alone without our actual feelings of pleasure.

Going back to my music style analogue. When I had my full feelings of pleasure in the past, it was like I was listening to music I like since it was me living a life that was my style. But when I have developed this anhedonia in which there are never any given brief moments of any feelings of pleasure whatsoever, then it is now like I am only listening to music I hate and find no value in since I am now living a life that is not who I am, is not my style at all, is a life I find no good value in whatsoever without my feelings of pleasure, and is a lifestyle I will never accept. Some might tell me that the act of living for feelings of pleasure makes no sense. But you must understand here that feelings of pleasure are vital to our survival in life in giving us that genuine sense of joy, motivation, inspiration, bond, etc. That is how we evolved. For some people though, feelings of pleasure aren’t that important or not that important at all. But for people like me, you must understand here that they are absolutely vital and life depending for me. They are the only good and profound experiences for me in my personal life.

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ2hJezvd2I[/youtube]

3

MattMVS7,

I feel for you… I am so sorry to hear about your anhedonia but all I can suggest is that you persist. Things may not change but they ‘COULD’. Do you have a favourite food/drink, or any hobby you still enjoy from time to time (even if its TV or walking). If you do then that is a symbol of hope still. It is better to exist just to experience those few occasional pleasures than not live and not experience at all. Do others love you? Do you love others? Maybe living for the sake of others adds enough purpose and will to battle on, to survive.

I agree with euthanasia but these only to the extent that there is absolutely no known solution or treatment to comfort one’s pleasure in life. From your writing style I can see you still took contentment and pride in your writing; you enjoyed being here, that is indicative you will enjoy being other places. Only be patient with the basis of spacetime and with time you will find yourself positioned in the right place within the very constituent of the fabric of space so as to truly savour the moment. A hedonist’s lifestyle is prone to subjecting one to anhedonia - too much of a good thing may lead us to boredom and decadency, as was the case of the Romans in an indirect way when relating some key individuals and historical aspects.

There are meds out there that do wonders… We currently live on the best period of humanity’s history and humans are better off than ever before. How would you feel working sowing the fields 16 hours a day in hard labour 6 days a week like they used to do. How would you feel not having the internet? NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER - I almost gave up once in life when I had an overdose that sent me into excruciating unimaginable pain. I decided to battle it out by drinking water and spewing all night long for the sake of life itself.

Life happens in stages, we all have our ups and downs, and superseding the ‘downs’ is what brings the most pleasure and greatest rewards after in my humblest opinion. The loss of Robin Williams was tragic, and I do not know much about his life to comment on the nature of his death and his validation in ethics and reasoning to take his own life away. It was certainly a shock to me.

Maybe you should keep a diary or a set of memoirs in order to disclose to an incumbent you may love as a sign of communion and bonding (although, at least expect her to write ~300 pages back to you for the sake of fairness). You are good at writing, mayhap not good at personal verbal communication, but if you can express your feelings to others then that at least gives one purpose to live for that is the very fundamental necessity towards LOVE - the ability to communicate. Of course, love without an exchange of rapport is still possible but to me it is rather blind and shallow, not that it is wrong either.

Having a partner (I am assuming you don’t have one, otherwise you would not as likely be in a state of anhedonia) is utterly beneficial, as are friends. In acceptance of who you are it becomes a necessity to ‘let go’ of those aspects that are deterring you in life. If music does not interest you anymore try foreign music by first immersing yourself in their culture first. Or better yet, if you have enough determination you can create your own music. Acceptance is only rational if perceived in the sense of letting go of the ‘detriments’ of life and embracing the joy of creation itself - it then remains your duty, as an active human being, to make this reality/world/construct a better place for yourself and others by simply being yourself and projecting your magnificent presence onto the lives of others.

When you go to buy groceries try exchanging a few words with the checkout chick if possible - a simple ‘hello’ or ‘any troubled customers here as of lately?’, or anything would be a good start for a routine. Having a routine is something that is important for a healthy life and is a luxury not all people have (myself included at this point in time to a certain extent). Maybe you are not constraining your acquirement of pleasure and are having too much of it that you grow bored. For instance, part of living (as said in ‘Futurama’) as a human is about having self control (when Bender turns into a human). Maybe treat yourself to a holistic experience of candles, friends, music you still do not loathe, and a suitable environment with your FAVOURITE food once a month, mayhap once a week, I don’t know. But establish a routine anyway and then break away from that routine every time you need fun filled excitement, this with great self control and self awareness.

Sorry for being so informal… I hate seeing people go through hard times. There is a suicide/depression forum, here is the link: suicideforum.com/

I used to attend this forum in particular with the specific aim to help people but then I was banned for simply stating that my problem in life is that I want, and always desired, two wives ‘ideally’. So obviously I do not think too highly of them. :stuck_out_tongue:

4

Hello Matt
I believe that one should have the right to end their own life if in fact it is no longer worth living. However I have a problem with not trying to find in favor of life at all.
To use the musical analogy just because your favorite station no longer plays the music you love it is an error to think that no other music can ever fill you with joy. This requires work but it is necessary if you’re going to judge against life.
In your case I don’t know how your life was before and after this disease came about but I would imagine that your life value was determined by more than the physical pleasure. But if it was, isn’t it worth finding out if something else, another rhytim brings you tolerance of your state? Not because you ought to do it for others but for yourself. The decision is rather final, so you should pursue other rhythms because you might miss out on new things that you could learn about yourself.

5

Actually, it would be like this. Since our thoughts and such are not any form of pleasure or joy at all since they are all the “thinking” experience without our feelings of pleasure and cannot be any other experience such as sight, hearing, smell, joy, and pleasure without our actual feelings of pleasure, then it is like I am not listening to any music at all having this anhedonia in that music analogue. As a matter of fact, there is no form of joy, pleasure, happiness, or anything of good value for that matter in my own personal life without my feelings of pleasure.

6

So it is more like a lover of music becoming deaf.

Still, what about perseverance? I guess it depends on the very disposition to live. Depression is probably ever present for you and many others but if pleasure is the upmost value then depression that follows is that much stronger.
I wonder what would happen with your disposition towards life without pleasure if you found an argument that would convince you that pleasure was not the highest good.

7

Feelings of pleasure are the only things that can define the version of good in which we are motivated, inspired, and have a sense of worth in life because that cannot come from our thoughts alone since they are all the “thinking” experience as I’ve said before. Only feelings of pleasure can give us that sense of worth and people are only fooling themselves into thinking that they do have a sense of life worth living without their feelings of pleasure.

8

I don’t get what is the point of your post. There’s noone stopping you from doing it, so do it, if you want to. Myself I am anhedonic as well, just like you are. If you aren’t gonna do it, then fix the world. You know good and well it has nothing to do with only a particular activity. Anhedonics can’t take joy from any activity. I don’t see what this whining’s all about.

9

Anhedonics rarely find pleasure when they find the pot of gold they obsess over, in your case, lusting for two-wives. Two-wives will not solve your problem, only a new novelty you will grow bored of in time, as most-marriages.

Anhedonia is not caused by only hedonism. It can also be caused by pestilence, scarcity, and one grows used to it and becomes anhedonic. Or simply a mental imbalance, hyperintelligience, or too much junk food.

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDN-peQRtCA[/youtube]

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Also, what I said could very well be false. But even so, even if it were somehow proven to me that my life can still be good and worth living without my feelings of pleasure, I still personally would have no sense of good value and worth in my life anyway without my feelings of pleasure. Therefore, I would present these false-intellectual long-winded arguments to others anyway in order to try and convince them anyway so that they will be on my side and agree and respect me. People might at first have every reason to call me selfish and a crybaby. But if I can keep on presenting these types of arguments to these people, then it just might get to the point where these people will say to me: “Fine. I will no longer call you these names and will no longer have a disrespectful tone towards you. I can’t prove or disprove the things you are saying and neither can I prove what I’m saying is true or not. So we will just go about our own lives and I will respect your hedonistic values and you will just let me be, let me live my life, and respect my ways of living.” That was all I was asking from you and other people. Me writing all these long-winded posts/packets is not my way of seeking any self-pity or being a selfish crybaby. It is my way of saying to you and others: "My pleasure is my own personal life here and you better respect that. It is my own personal life I came here for and came here to live. If you don’t respect that, then you have it coming and I will become violent and abusive towards you and others who do dare mock and insult me by calling me names and saying things to me such as “Boohoo, stop being a pity pot and stop being a crybaby and just abandon your values and life of pleasure and do something with your life instead.”

Now you then might say something to me such as that me living for pleasure is no different than rodents living to get pleasure simulations off of electrodes or people just living to rely on junk food or a bag of chips to make their lives good, worth living, and to define their goals and dreams as being good and worth living for. But you would be attributing a false idea (personality) here to feelings of pleasure in saying that they are not that great and don’t define our lives. They are very profound feelings and life dependent for me. They are the only things that allow me to experience the greatness and beauty of this life, nature, my composing dream, and my compositions. Otherwise, all that is experienced for me in my life without my feelings of pleasure is nothing more than just thoughts. Nothing more than just a thinking experience. It is all nothing more than the experience of a thought of greatness and beauty and not the actual experience of greatness and beauty.

Here’s what it is like. If I were to have my full feelings of pleasure in my life and I were to go into a beautiful place, then it would be like “WOW, THIS PLACE IS SO BEAUTIFUL!!!” But without my feelings of pleasure, then it is just a thought. It is just some bland and neutral tonality that says “Wow, this place is so beautiful.” That’s all it is is just a thought (the thinking experience) and is no experience of any motivation, inspiration, awe, wonder, joy, happiness, peace, etc.

One last thing here is that I am not a part of humanity. I live by my own hedonistic rules and defined good in life which would be my feelings of pleasure. I do not live by the loathsome and disrespectful rules of others who call me a crybaby, selfish, and that I should just stop feeling sorry for myself and instead abandon my life of pleasure and live for other things instead and for me to instead have good value towards other things in terms of my own personal life I live for myself. So you might now be asking me why should you live by my own rules of respect then? It would be because this rule of disrespect is universal in that it applies to everyone. I gave an example with how that is with Hitler and the Jews. You shouldn’t disrespect anyone. Saying that you have the right to disrespect someone whether they be innocent people you know or don’t know would be no different than saying that Hitler had every right to disrespect the Jews and to slaughter them while I’m at it.

The only part of humanity I am a part of would be those types of people who do have full compassion and respect towards my hedonistic values and such who have no scorn or disrespect towards me. These would be people such as my mom and therapist.

Also, what I’m saying regarding feelings of pleasure being the only good thing in life really can’t be proven as true or false. It could really have the strong chance of being true.

12

So boring, I never said that you were a crybaby but now I will. If you were really anhedonic you wouldn’t be so easily hurt when people tell you to stop whining.

In short your philosophy is pointless. You say you want to live your life in hedonistic pursuits, yet claim you take no pleasure in hedonistic pursuits. Why do you waste your time? You should make the world a better place, or at least upgrade the humans, and then maybe somewhere along the lines they can fix that brain of yours. Upgrade your minions so then they can fix you. Anything else is retarded.

13

I am instead living my life to try and fully recover my pleasure and that is the only life that concerns me. Also, do not label me as selfish or a crybaby which is an inferior label. Instead, label me as a psychopath which is a superior label. Psychopaths are not crybabys. They are fierce demons and gods. I can give an example. With Vegeta from the anime Dragonball Z, he is not what we would call some crybaby. He is instead what we would refer to as a powerful psychotic transcended being. If you were to go up to him and call him an inferior label such as a crybaby, then he would slaughter you. Therefore, do not call me a crybaby either. Instead, give me that superior label and give me respect as I said before since I am like Vegeta. Me and Vegeta might be different since we obviously have different pursuits, goals, etc. But he and I are the same in the sense in that we both have that powerful, harsh, fierce, and psychotic superior attitude towards those types of people who dare mock us, insult us, stand in our way, and call us names such as a crybaby. Actually, maybe I am more like Frieza. Who knows. But I do know this. I am only like Frieza and Vegeta towards those types of people who call me names and such while I am innocent like Goku towards people who do respect me and don’t have scorn and don’t call me such names.

14

you are a clown, a superior being to a burnt toast, but not as superior being to a ringleader. i am trixie, i am the highest level unicorn, my hair is ice, my hair is white as snow, i am going to friez-ya. look upon me with awe and glory.

15

How do you plan to recover your pleasure using the same methods that took it away?

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Through therapy, meds, natural supplements, etc. But I am also just talking here in the meantime as well. People can call me what they want. But I am not a part of their world which means that their words do not apply to me. If I were to engage with those types of people, then I would just be simply engaging with them and nothing more. So they can just fuck off. Only people like my mom and therapist are a part of my world since they respect me and don’t call me names.

17

hmm so chemical bathing, even though your condition was probably brought on my chemical bathing. in theory you use chemicals you deem have an opposite effect or half opposite effect to the original chemical effects.

therapy…what good does that do? What does she teach you?

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I am a completely separate entity from the rest of humanity. It is as though we are two different universes. The things others say such as that I am someone selfish or a crybaby don’t apply to me since that is another universe entirely. I am in my own universe. I could easily call these people selfish crybabies in return for calling me as such and neither would my words apply to them either since my universe is not their universe. Our opinions would just go right past one another. Therefore, since our personal opinions do not apply to one another at all, then you shouldn’t even be saying that I am some selfish crybaby at all in the first place since it doesn’t even apply to me. Our personal opinions are our own and can’t be proven. So we should instead go about our own lives and respect our own ways of life. What you deem as disrespect and what you deem as respect is different than what I deem as disrespect and what I deem as respect. So since our own different worldviews here do not apply to one another, then we should just go about our own lives and respect our own ways of life.

Your life that you deem as righteous and the morally right life which would be you choosing to live on for others and other things in life even if you had a lifelong absence of pleasure that could never recover, that is not my righteous and morally right life. My righteous and morally right life would be me living for my life of pleasure that I deserve to have since I am just as important as anyone else and deserve that life to live. You should respect my righteous and morally right life just as I should respect your righteous and morally right life of living for others. You might say that my life is not righteous and is morally wrong. But like I said before, we are two completely different realities. What you deem as righteous and morally right here does not apply to me just as what I deem as righteous and morally right here does not apply to you either.

You might direct me to a dictionary and show me what the words “selfish” and “crybaby” mean and you might say that these words do apply to me. However, we define our own personal meanings in life. Therefore, it really doesn’t apply to me then and neither would that apply to you either.

You might also say to me that it is, in fact, morally wrong of me to commit suicide in the event that my pleasure could never recover since I would be causing grief to others. But here again, that does not apply to me because I could easily say in return that it is morally wrong of others to keep me alive without my personal good life of pleasure that I deserve to have.

19

ridiculous. you were not born seperate from the world around you. you were seperated from pleasure and each day you evolve your seperation from pleasure expounds.

20

We are literally separate from each other. I am not in your mind and you are not in my mind either.