Acts of Kindness

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

Im going to try and break down acts of kindness here.

This will be difficult.

Bob gives Pete secret money.

Why?

-Bob wants to help him because he cares.

-Why care?— His personality, he’s beliefs contributed to his personality… all I can think of, no duty because that’s not true caring, caring has to come from within.

-Bob wants to because he’ll feel better about himself (selfish).

-Bob does it because it will help Pete give something back to Bob (selfish)

-Bob does it because Bob has a problem spending money, but also wants to help Pete. (half selfish)

-Bob does it because he believes religiously he will gain from it later (selfish?).

Most conclusions are selfish. In fact I think some philosopher wrote a book about this. Anyway even Religious acts of Kindness can be selfish many times, because the gain is for themselves, their happiness, their future, their afterlife, etc. And this is just secret! We’d have more to add if Pete knew who gave him the money.

So is the only true act of kindness when you just care? So how does one care, you can’t force care. Maybe my point of many small steps and choices. But I would quite possibly believe it’s personality, but I will argue high beliefs can make you care after some time. People get emotional over their God’s everyday with enough belief.

But should we take this farther back? Like why the belief in the first place? What if the belief is selfish? Then are it’s effects so? What if someoen does something selfishly, but in turn later realizes their glad for other reasons? So we can’t necessarily say people shouldn’t do selfish kind acts? So do we have the right to look down upon Stars who give to charity for their image? At what line do you draw on this matter? Is selfishness necessarily wrong? Or is this just a relgious wrong?

Religiously, how does one show acts of kindness that are considered truly benevolent? Selfless? This is what some Religions ask for, so what is it they ask?

Also this hits very closely to the topic of Christianity as a foundation of security for eternal skepticism. For I believe Pascal was right, but is this ‘right’.

Discuss.

2

I don’t think that if an act benefits you, it necessarily means that that act was selfish. Selfish really has more than one meaning.

Firstly, there’s the meaning that it benefits you. This, I prefer to write as self-interest (ie. I enjoy helping people, so it’s in my self-interest to help people).

Secondly, there’s the evaluative meaning (ie. “you shouldn’t have done that - it was selfish!”). It seems to me that we use the word in this sense to describe acts which are motivated primarily by our benefiting from them, or our benefiting from them at the expense of others.

It seems to me that acts of kindness are generally self-interested (I like being kind, and I enjoy the reputation/reciprocation it gains me) but not selfish.

3

It can be argued, rather convincingly I might add, that most every human action is rooted at some level by rational self interest. This idea, of course, is simply abhorent to many.

4

First, is the act of doing it because you enjoy it? Or because it’s what should be done, or what you feel is needed? What if one does good acts not because it makes them feel good, but because they want others to feel good, and in return they feel good, but the original reason wasn’t for themselves, this wouldn’t be selfish.

We could look at it in various ways. Such as possibly the act, was done for yourself, as well as done out of caring. But… such as caring can also be selfish as settling a matter that concerns yourself… such as if it hurts you to see another unhappy, you care and help, but to satisfy that emotion?

So I think what many of you were trying to hit on is most acts do in many ways, if not all, contribute to self, could be considered selfish. But when do we draw the line between good selfish, and bad selfish is the key.

Bad selfish is only when done for self?

Good is when done for yourself and another reason?

Discuss.

5

Who told you every kind act you ever performed was actually done for selfish reasons, and why did you believe them, when you can look back on your own actions, and see for yourself whether or not they were selfishly motivated?

 As far as the old "I enjoy being kind, therefore being kind is selfish"  routine, I have a couple things to say about it- first, one can define 'selfless' or 'a kind person' [i]just as[/i] the sort of person who enjoys doing things for others, rather than themselves. It is the fact that one enjoys these acts that makes them selfless- we all know people who do kind acts with much grumbling and complaining about it, because they feel forced by some external pressure, and we tend to think of the acts of these people as[i] less[/i] virtuous than one who gives happily. 
 Second, it seems to me that everyone I know has on certain occaisions done the right thing even though they hated it, and gained no pleasure whatsoever from the act. I'm sure you've all done stuff like that, so that seems to defeat the idea of all actions being selfish, right there.
6

I have some extra money this year because of a bonus, I’m so happy about my bonus that I want to share it with someone that I know is having some tough times financially, so I send cash in an envelope anomalously simply signed “Merry Christmas”.

Did I do it because it makes me feel good, no, spending the money makes me feel good as well. It does however happen to make me feel good, but many things can make me feel good if my attitude is properly aligned. Doing something and feeling good about it does not automatically make you selfish, doing something solely for the reason it will make you feel good is a selfish act.

Did I do it because I think I’ll get something back from them, no, I did it anomalously so they wouldn’t feel obligated to me.

Did I do it because I think God will reward me for giving, no, I don’t believe in the monitory reward principle, I believe that giving helps you to prepare yourself to not be covetous which helps me grow to better abide in love, which will make me happier with what I already have.

Love is charity done right and love is an agreement and act that requires two consenting people, you give without expecting to receive, but if the other loves you as well they will give back when they can. Knowing this principle and realizing that you may one day need a favor or receive something in return is not automatically a sign of doing something out of selfishness. The acid test is how you react when you don’t get something in return from someone that you helped out before, this is the test of your true intent and many pass this test.

7

The question is why did someone do the right thing and they hated it? Was it because they felt they ought to? I should clean my vehicle not because I want to but because of some higher value I hold? Or perhaps Im afraid of the result of not doing an act, I hate doing it, but I do it anyway for some other higher value? Fact is these all align with self. The only way you can escape this is by doing something randomly, but then doing it randomly you’ve never made a choice, so it’s not really an act of kindness.

Would someone do a good act if the result was horrible bad for them? They never got reward, knew they would never feel pleased from it? Would they really? Why? It’s just not actual. For if it was even many Christians would sell almost everything they have. Can you imagine that testimony? But that takes alot of faith and most Christians don’t have it.

8

Well King I’ve discussed this when I’ve said an act of kindness with self and other benefits. But they all hold self. I’m not saying selfish necessarily has to be a bad thing!

Example. I was eating at a resturant with a friend one time, they gave some cheese dip that we asked for. When we got the bill it wasnt there! So I decided to tell them at the register, hey I got cheese dip and you guys didn’t charge me. = Why did I do this? I felt it would please myself, because it was the right thing to do, I felt I’d feel better after it, I felt it was the right thing to do, “I”.= Lady goes, Ok, total is blah blah. No thank you, no ok well thanks for telling us but we won’t charge you, none of this, just ok heres your total now. What did this gain me? I felt worse because I wasn’t rewarded like I thought I would be. That money will go to these people who have more than enough to begin with, probably to buy them a drink at a bar or something, but had no reward for me at present, did not satisfy. Now point being is this. Why it seems the ‘right’ thing to do, only because it was right for my feeling, I felt I ‘ought’ to do it because of my religious beliefs. For if not my religious beliefs, what reason would I have to make a small deal a big one? I would have been fine keeping the money and had no regrets.

But why did I do this? Because something was in it for me. Self gratification. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but it’s selfish. If I could however be possibly stupid and believe the result was not a benefit, and not think about an action other than its what should be done, then possibly I have commited a truly kind act, off the idea that I dont believe in stealing.

But why the oughtness? Deep rooted beliefs? Or possibly a moral law?

9

What, rational?

10

Hi Club29,

I’d like to fuse Aristotle with Plato here with reference to Christianity.

Aristotle points out problems with our passions being under reason. The good man does good and enjoys it. The intemperate man does the good but doesn’t like it. The intemperate man does evil but doesn’t fully enjoy it. The wicked man follows his passions and doesn’t know what is good.

But the best man is the one who does good because it is good and not because it is good for society.

Plato points out how we move from more physical loves to more spiritual loves. Now that love draws us out of ourselves, I think we can say we become less and less selfish the more spiritual we become.

As Augustine said, “Men are wills.” I say it may be a problem to understand moral health purely in terms of the rational, as we are composite beings of both body and soul. That is why I wish to emphasize the role of the emotions and the will.

“Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for justice.”

mrn

11

club29

You'll have to describe for me what you mean here by 'align with the self'.  If I do something I hate doing that isn't for my own gain, because I feel it's my moral obligation to do so, that's the very opposite of selfishness, to the extent that 'selfish' is an interesting word to call things.  If you're defining 'selfish' as 'doing something for a reason', then fine, everything we do on purpose is 'selfish' by definition.  But that strange usage of the word then has nothing at all to do with kindness, generosity, and altruism. 
In other words, you have taken two very different meanings of the phrase 'want to do something' to mean the same thing- in the classic sense, wanting to do something means we desire it.  In the philosophical sense, wanting to do something, means we willed it- means it wasn't random or out of our control. Two completely different things.

As a matter of fact, yes I do think people do things like that. In fact, I think that anything physically possible for a human being to do, somebody has done. Again, the only way nobody does the above thing, is if you’re just defining any and all response to moral obligation as something we do for pleasure. I see no evidence of that, it’s just something you’ve decided to state- granted, you aren’t the only one.

EDIT: Here’s a test for you: Give me an example of something a person could do, that would be truly generous and non-random. An example of what it would take for a person to commit the kind, non-selfish act that you don’t think happens. If you can think of something, then I guarentee you somebody at some point has done it. If you can’t think of anything, then all human behavior automatically fits your model by definition, no matter what it is, and you haven’t pointed out anything real.