Is it possible? I am a 19 year old male agnostic, she’s the Mormon. No, I do not plan on marrying anytime soon, but both of us agree that if we date we would at least like the comfort of knowing it may lead to marriage.
The problem of course, Mormons cannot marry outside their religion. Now I love this girl, and she loves me. I know that doesn’t mean shit nowadays to most people but we definitely have some sort of chemistry.
I used to be Christian, so I’m somewhat in the ballpark, but in the past years I’ve lost my faith and have decided on the fact that no man will ever know the true story behind divinity and creation, and anyone who declares that they do is IMO arrogant.
They say love conquers all, but I’m not sure. Marrying her could be the worst decision of my life, or the best.
BTW: She has anxiety disorders that I believe are linked to the strict regulations of Mormonism. It crushes me.
I’m just looking for some input, I guess. I predict most of you will say break up immediately, but it is just so damn hard.
shrugs If it is important, you gotta ask: is the juice worth the squeeze? I know plenty of people who are very good apathetic Xs, where X=the religion of their spouse/Significant Other.
Perdicat has it right though, enjoy your time together. Make it clear that you will cross that bridge when you come to it, but express that you’d be more than willing to go through the motions.
Heck, my brother had to go through all the motions of becoming Catholic – all of them! He was finishing up his residency and taking classes with third graders! He doesn’t believe it now anymore than he did then, but he went through the motions and is raising their kids in the Church, so everybody wins, right?
You need to show up to church, go to a couple of meetings and be friendly to people who think God exists. You need to be technically mormon, not actually. Go through the motions if you love her, if this is the biggest issue then you are laughing.
I’m sort of surprised by the response here. Xunz, are you really alright with your brother teaching his kids that the world is a way that he doesn’t believe it is? Is lying to your kids really OK?
I think that, if you can love her as a Mormon, and she can love you as an agnostic, then that’s great. Depending how strong you are in your beliefs, how much you like to argue, etc., such a marriage can be great. If it works out, kids that might result could benefit from the discussions it could enable.
But I disagree with pretending to be something you’re not for the sake of someone else. If you’re talking about love, consult the man: “Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds.” If you need to be someone else, or she does, how can it be said that you love each other?
So, marry her if she wants you. If she only wants you stripped of your beliefs and your values. . . it’s something to consider.
What is important first-and-foremost is that the children receive a proper moral education and that there be harmony in my brother’s household.
Now, do I think it is unfortunate that the children are being taught something I believe to be false? Of course. But I will say from observation that children raised with on atheist parent and one believing parent, the children tend to drift towards disbelief. Also, they are being raised as liberal Catholics, so the baggage they are getting with their moral education is less odious.
I think that you should seriously consider the possibility of not having a future with this woman if she is allowing her religion to get in the way.
Couples disagree about issues all the time but they find a happy medium gound. It’s all about give and take. Allowing her beliefs to control your relationship will ultimatley lead to it’s downfall.
I’m sure that you could both agree on some sort of moral code that children should be raised in, this is all you need, specifics of religion are a smoke screen for the true problem at hand.
Lying to yourself and your gf, by pretending to be mormon, is not the correct course to take.
It sounds like she is already having doubts about the dictatorial nature of her particular sect. Maybe, with your help, she can free herself from arbitrary dogma, and see the moral underpinnings without all the chaff.
The brainwashing techiniques used in these sects are quite nasty though. You will have to be sensitive to this and act as a support rather than leading the way. Keep focus on the important thing, leading a moral life.
I find it more concerning that they are being taught something your brother believes to be false. Besides the principled problem of not truthfully representing oneself, there are other potential problems: there’s a certain inability for you brother to connect with his children on that level; there’s the potential for conflict if the child begins questioning; and perhaps worst of all, there’s the potential that if the child does leave the church, the mother may harbor resentment for the role she perceived your brother playing in that conversion.
Of course, I am speaking in anonymous terms. In any instance, those involved will work out these issues on their own. I suppose I mean that in principle and on average, the risks are great and the gains are dubious.
The nature of relationships is compromise. If the children weren’t raised in the Church, it would have meant that my sister-in-law would have been living a lie. In such situations, it becomes important for the parties to assess the relative importance of the particular issue, in the grander scheme of things and, with dignity and no expectation of anything resembling “payback”, to simply let the issue go and let the person for whom it matters most have their way.
No… they got to her pretty bad. Though lately she has pulled a lot of those “I feel like God isn’t listening” pieces.
She definitely has her heart set on marrying in the temple, I don’t. Not to sound like an ass, but I would be embarrassed to bring my family there b/c they all know I would never believe any of that.
She’s worried she will fall too in love with me, and fall apart when the time finally comes, and I am worrying the same thing.
Xunz, that’s interesting that “If the children weren’t raised in the Church, it would have meant that [your] sister-in-law would have been living a lie.” That’s a valid point, but it says something about the nature of religion. I’ve heard it said that atheism is the default, and heard people react very negatively to that assertion, but this seems to support it. Many religions don’t seem to want to share. That’s interesting.
Do couples make the same decisions about politics? “We’re raising the kids republican.” Sounds off. It seems like in politics, the parents would both present their side of the case, or present no side at all. Is it not possible to raise children in multiple religions? Isn’t there something fishy about that?
I understand the need for compromise, but that doesn’t sound like compromise. The need to decide on one religion or the other seems to rule out compromise, and require that point be conceded by one partner or the other.
Anyone who doesn’t think that their children are going to be raised in accordance with their parents political beliefs is lying to themselves. Republican parents tend to have Republican children and Democratic parents tend to have Democratic children. There are some defections on both sides as people age but those also often cause a certain degree of domestic strife. A friend-of-mine’s parents through quite the fit when she came out as a Democrat! Likewise, in something like Middle School, you can clearly trace a child’s political affiliation to that of their parents – largely due to the fact that the major window into the adult world for a child is through the lenses of their parents. My children are certainly going to be raised to be good liberal Democrats, that is for sure.
As for taking atheism as the “default”, I don’t think that is a very valid statement. If that were true, we would expect more atheistic societies and the number of those has, historically, been quite, quite small. Smaller still if “atheism” includes a rejection of notions like spirits, reincarnation, and much of the other religious baggage that non-Abrahamic religions have, or is “atheism” purely a reaction against the Christian paradigm?
So, in the case of conflicting world-views, some sort of reconciliation does need to occur. The question is, how to do this? I think the method I described is the most pragmatic by far.
How would you have handled the situation? Especially wrt something like Catholicism, where the cultural element is at least as important as the belief element.
I think religion is important in a family. Maybe you could pray to God that she become an agnostic.
In all seriousness, I feel for you. I’ve heard of couples that had to break because of religious differences and they married another in their own faith. I think you’re mature enough to realise this might happen. I’m sorry for your situation, but then, maybe you will both go on a spiritual quest together.
I’ve made my girlfriend well aware that if we were to marry, our children wouldn’t be raised in the Catholic church. I’d present all of the evidence, and let them draw their own conclusions. But who would arrive at Catholic conclusions without it being drilled into their head as fact by somebody?
I think the answer is obvious.
Here’s my 2 cents:
There are 7 billion people on the planet, and over half are women. There is bound to be another woman whom you love just as much, who would accept you as agnostic, and don’t care if you go to church, and don’t care if your children are raised agnostic.
It’s not worth going to church every week and having to watch your children being brainwashed into something that may or may not be true just because of love. There are too many fish in the sea to settle for somebody who doesn’t accept your beliefs, and then pushes their beliefs on your children.
I’d agree with the enjoy your time together bit. I am with my girlfriend because God never comes up. She’s non-practicing, and she believes in belief. But not many mormons have the option of believing in the belief. Either they’re fundamental or rebellious. Being a Jehovah’s Witness previously, I know that both religions are similar in that they’re a lifestyle, not just a 2 hour excursion on Sundays.