Should Congress authorize President Barack Obama to conduct airstrikes against targets in Syria?
Yes
No
Undecided
0voters
President Obama put on hold Saturday a plan to attack Syria for its alleged use of chemical weapons, arguing that the United States had a moral responsibility to respond forcefully but would not do so until Congress has a chance to vote on the use of military force. The proposed airstrikes have ignited a firestorm of conflicting values. Personally, I am undecided. My pacifist inclinations conflict with my sense of moral outrage over the horrible deaths of civilians and children. What do you think the congress should do?
As of today, it seems like congress will OK Obama’s agenda to use military force against Syria. How quickly agent orange is forgotten. What blatant hypocrisy in the name of saving face!
Of course it’s horrific that children get gassed. But our slap on the wrist of Syria will not deter Russian from selling poison gases to Syria. It may embolden the Al Quada (SIC) element of the opposition to Asaad.
Violence makes violence. The deaths of children are always collateral damage of war.
As horrific as the situation is in Syria, I’m inclined to look a bit further down the road. Assad isn’t the only despot or wannabe despot, and if the international community closes it’s eyes and pretends that the use of chemical or biological weapons is allowed, then it is likely that we will see more of the same in the future. Iran suffered chem attacks in the Iran-Iraq war, and the international community did nothing but warn Saddam to stop doing that. Yeah, right.
No matter the do’s and don’t’s, There is only one question:
What is the message we wish to send to anyone tempted to use such weapons?
There are rumors we used gas in Iraq and afghanistan. The real problem is we are
about a year too late to actually do anything. A line in the sand only works when done
early. These attacks on civilians have been going on a long time and we did nothing, said
nothing after a lot of civilians died. It is like parenting, you gotta to discipline early or
you already lost the battle and we already lost the battle. Give it up. Pick your battles with
care because this is already a lost cause.
So all of Iran and Syria’s neighbors have to develop and stockpile chemical weapons for retaliatory capabilities? If one can use gas on their own people, then how much easier to use it on “others”? Again, what is the message we want to send? This isn’t just the middle east, it is global. Do you think North Korea isn’t watching? Every piss pot dictator in Africa isn’t watching?
ANY military action in the middle east is never going to be the right answer, but will always be choices among the lesser of evils. There is no win-win in this mess, but there are plenty of lose-lose opportunities.
Is there any diplomatic way to achieve a negotiated settlement that guarantees rights for all Syrians? If there is any possibility to that then striking government targets might preclude it. But, the picture I am getting from the news is that Assad is intransigent. So the next question is: does the US or any other country have the right to act against a country in a way that may increase the suffering of the citizens of that country in the absence of an international consensus?
I would love to stay out of it, I have family that is military, I want them safe. The people have been warring since forever or damn near, let them fight. But, since Russia and China are in this game of monopoly, we have to. Frankly the thought of those two superpowers controling that area is a bad one. Its not about oil its about the locations and the advantage in controlling the Mediterranean area. The oil will play out eventually but, not the position. I hate to say it but, lets get this shit done and over with. Diplomacy with Russia and China will harder than people think, they have fantastic manipulators. We have to show a serious force and threat or they will not give due respect, we will be weak and cowardly in their eyes. If we strike it must only be the first of many. They don’t want war anymore than we do but, they will not back down, their pride and ego will not let them unless they can save face.
This is beginning to look like a shadow war. The one in 1939 I believe with the appeasement policies had this same what’s covert now,and who knows what is going on behind closed door type of thing. Everybody on edge, no one can agree. It seems like there must be/is? A master manipulator out there , which brought this catch-22 about. No one is able to make sense of it, and yet, there it is, staring everyone in the face. For instance, clinton sent missiles into pakistan for no reason, didn’t need a declaration even though the action was substantially more complex than this slap on the wrist that has become an international drama of vast proportions.
No, there is more going on then meets the eye. And all this behind the scenes juggling, uncertainty, furtive search for rationales, public ops and such mask an awful gaping truth:
We are at war! A war more than of attrition,a war more then cyber, more then anything the world has ever experienced: we are in a war even above unresolved ideology. This is probably the clash of civilizations some have talked about.
The fear of monetary/global collapse has been openly talked about, and I think this is the case of realizing that we have come to the end of history, where quantum mistakes can cost dearly. The unity in the new world order far outweighs the petty interests of a locally entombed dictator. This is worse then pre ww2 europe, where it was said a specter haunted europe, here the world has been brought to it’s knees in an incompetent catch 22. It’s a no brainer: there is no winning strategy.
Obe, I went through survival training as a little kid of 5 yrs old on up due to the Cuban missile crisis and cold war. Dad was military and wanted his kids to survive attacks. We even had a cave that we would go to and we had to learn how to get out of the city to get to it. I was shooting as soon as I could hold a .22 steady, that was at 5. I learned fire making, water finding and water traps , fishing hunting etc etc.
We taught our son survival, I don’t want my future grandkids to have to learn. I want it done and over.
The reason for training is loss of faith in governing. My family is not the only ones, US citizens are not the only ones training kids for survival. Its worldwide. Kids should play not worry about threat. Yet, it goes on. I am damned tired of fucking egos ours, theirs and everyone. Either shit or get off the pot.
Kris, what will this really finish, though? The only reason Obama is even talking about striking is because of his own “red line” rhetoric. It’s pretty clear cut that America really shouldn’t involve itself except to save face. And how much face do we really have left to save? The more i think about it, the more i think we should just stay out of it. i’m not a lover of chemical weapons, obviously, but, let’s face it, in a war like this one, there are gonna be a lot of civilians dying one way or another. At this point, it’s pretty disingenuous for the US to start talking about the morality of this or that type of weaponry.
Ugly: we cannot really afford to loose any more face. If we do well, we won’t have the ability to
Conduct diplomacy as usual more overt will go covert. And when that happens, the next step is distrust. That is the red line we cannot afford. To loose the trust. Trust is the only way we can conduct business.
We must attack. But how? The diplomatic front is based on some trust isn’t it? If we crucify that with ops to supplant and confirm our theoretical notions of why people will do business as usual, that’s not it.
It must be on a very basic level. And not out of fear.
Out of the need to get along. Out of the need to see our kids and their kids grow up. The petty paranoia of a singular state MUST not derail the state. We must attack to show, but the show has to be convincing to the whole theatre, not only the theater of war, but of public opinion. Then the politicians will align.
UPF, I agree but , its not just that country, Russia and China have put themselves into it. Its not about oil, oil will play out eventually, it is all about position for them and us. I find it deplorable that a horrific line is drawn. It is ok to slaughter 42,000 people with explosives but, its not ok to slaughter them with chemicals?? That line makes me question . I want it over. I want kids to be kids. This play among adults is bullshit. Either help or look away. Either kill and own or shut the fuck up. Get it over with so kids are not on the ground in horrific pain dying over politics or religion.
Yeah, i want it over too, but can it really be a simple as a one-time airstrike? i don’t believe so. If we involve ourselves now, we will have bought ourselves another war. The UN doesn’t have Obama’s back on this one. Another unilateral military intervention in yet another Middle Eastern state is a disaster waiting to happen.